The Aerodrome Home Page
Aces of WWI
Aircraft of WWI
Books and Film
The Aerodrome Forum
Sign the Guestbook
Help
Links to Other Sites
Medals and Decorations
The Aerodrome News
Search The Aerodrome
Today in History


Subscribe to remove ads

The Aerodrome Forum


Go Back   The Aerodrome Forum > Archives > 1999


1999 Closed threads from 1999 (read only)

 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 7 June 1999, 02:36 AM   #1
JB
Guest
 
Posts: n/a

What happened to the bullet that killed the Red Baron?
 
Old 7 June 1999, 02:59 AM   #2
Paul Reece
Guest
 
Posts: n/a

As there was an entry and exit wound, I think it's safe to say that it went straight through and off into the wild blue yonder.
However, I remember reading somewhere, (possibly Carisella's "Who killed the Red Baron") that a medical orderly who undressed the body prior to the medical examination, found a bullet inside MvR's clothing, but threw it away(?), and a chance to establish whose gun it came from was lost forever.
Regards
Paul
 
Old 7 June 1999, 01:18 PM   #3
Barrett
Forum Ace of Aces
 
Barrett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: The American West
Posts: 5,120

 
I believe that the Harleyford book of the early 60s (Kimbrough Brown, et al) stated that The Bullet was retained by the orderly who returned with it to Australia but it disappeared in the 1950s.
__________________
You will not rise to the occasion: You will default to your level of training.
Barrett is offline  
Old 7 June 1999, 03:14 PM   #4
JB
Guest
 
Posts: n/a

Thanks...but what is this Harlyford book you mention? Do you have a publisher or any details so I can try to trace a copy. I'd really like to know the name of the medical orderly you mentioned as I'd bet that 'The Bullet' will be stored somewhere, by someone who has no idea what it is. It would be interesting to have it examined to see if the experts can tell if it was fired by a Lewis gun, Vickers, .303 Lee Enfield or some other type. If it came from a Webley revolver old uncle Bob was right...he did shoot down the Red Baron!
 
Old 7 June 1999, 03:42 PM   #5
Ed
Guest
 
Posts: n/a

Bob's your uncle?
 
Old 7 June 1999, 04:22 PM   #6
Kojack
Guest
 
Posts: n/a

I forget which book it was I was reading, but it stated that he was hit three times. The fatal bullet which went through his chest, the next hit him in the waist, and the last one hit him in the knee. One bullet or three, doesn't really matter. I would imagine that it was probably stolen, along with everything else that wasn't bolted down.
 
Old 7 June 1999, 04:45 PM   #7
Naval 10
Guest
 
Posts: n/a

I forget where i read it, but good old Raymond Collishaw wanted the bullet to be examined to see if it was fired from a Vickers on the ground or in the air. It could easily be verified if it was ground fire or from a Camel. Aircraft MGs have different rifling in the barrels. they produce morfe of a spin if i remember correctly, so they are more accurate, since the constant shaking of the aircraft would make it inaccurate. However the man with the slug refused to let anyone have it. Personally I beleive that if it was examined they would find that it was from a Lee Enfeild .303 not a Vickers .303 MG.

the reason being I read the autopsy report and it stated that he didn't have his safety harness on and he smashed his face and broke his nose on the machine guns. I know for sure he always had his safety harness on while the aircraft was in motion. He almost died once on a routine flight in the country side due to the fact that the aircraft was weighted differently fromn what he was used to and he removed his hands from teh stick and it flipped upside down, but his harness kept him in. He vowed to always buckle up after that. I think he was beaten to death and shot by infantry. Brown who was the Canadian pilot who was credited with downing him never actually said that he downed him. He never really wanted to talk about it. That is assuming that I remember all of the details correctly. Also Manfred's father received a telegram that night that Manfred was safe and was a POW. He was seen on the ground alive. If i do remmeber correctly I think it's a bit strange don't you think?

Then again I wasn't alive in 1918 and I wasn't present at the scene and this is just speculation of what happened. I don't like to accept what history has been given to us, instead i find it much more interesteing to ask questions in order to find the real truth.

VBR

Naval 10
 
Old 7 June 1999, 05:01 PM   #8
Rich Hicks
Guest
 
Posts: n/a

All,

I see the conspiracy theorists are at it again. I'm not at home, so can't check Carisella's book to verify the orderly's name, but he apparently DID find the bullet - either under the body or in MvR's clothing. He went home, unaware of the controversy surrounding the incident, and the bullet did disappear.

I've also read "The Red Baron's Last Flight", from Grub Street, and they thoroughly investigated all claims - coming to the same conclusion Carisella had almost 30 years earlier.

Rich
 
Old 7 June 1999, 06:47 PM   #9
Les
Guest
 
Posts: n/a

Hi guys
The medical orderly who prepared the Baron's body for autopsy was Cpl. E.J."Ted" McCarty.
"While the guards stood back, McCarty unbuttoned the Baron's outer fur-lined jacket. Then with the help of a guard, he slipped it down over the shoulders and arms of the corpse. He then undid the buttons of the Baron's inner flying jacket. As he struggled to slip that jacket over the shoulders and arms, he saw a large wallet tucked into a left breast pocket. McCarty quickly tugged the wallet out of the pocket, with a wink at the guard. When he did so, a spent bullet popped out with it and fell into the lining of the jacket. McCarty snatched up the slug and stuck it into his trouser pocket."
(Who Killed the Red Baron by P.J. Carisella pages 193-194)
McCarty also states in the same book that the bullet was lost in 1935 "when his mother died and he burned all sorts of papers and the bullet was lost in the debris".
Hope this helps.
Les
 
Old 7 June 1999, 07:57 PM   #10
Darryl
Forum Ace
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Western Australia
Posts: 948

 
I was pretty sure it sufaced again briefly on a stretcher somewhere in Texas next to a Govenor in the early 1960's but I can't confirm that.

regards all

Darryl
__________________
Nunquam obliviscar

Not here are the goblets glowing,
Not here is the vintage sweet;
'Tis cold as our hearts are growing,
And dark as the doom we meet.
But stand to your glasses, steady!
And soon shall our pulses rise:
A cup to the dead already-
Hurrah for the next that dies!
Darryl is offline  
 

Bookmarks

Tags
baron, bullet


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
bullet proof glass Trench Raider Aircraft 2 11 June 2006 04:55 PM
Morane Saulnier 'Bullet Dreamer Other WWI Aviation 6 8 September 2002 05:58 AM
Bullet Holes, Anyone? Craig 2001 17 29 January 2001 09:56 AM
The Magic Bullet A.M.M. 2000 35 4 February 2000 08:08 AM
The Magic Bullet Phil 2000 18 31 January 2000 04:25 AM


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 08:42 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like v3.2.9 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
Copyright 1997 - 2014 The Aerodrome