The Aerodrome Home Page
Aces of WWI
Aircraft of WWI
Books and Film
The Aerodrome Forum
Links to Other Sites
Medals and Decorations
Search The Aerodrome
Today in History

The Aerodrome Forum

Go Back   The Aerodrome Forum > Archives > 2000

2000 Closed threads from 2000 (read only)

Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 31 December 2000, 05:43 AM   #1
Posts: n/a

Can someone construct a list of all WW1 fighter pilots who scored victories against at least two aces?
Two that immediately come to my mind are both the Richthofen brothers: Manfred had 7 (Hartney isn't mentioned on his page probably as he survived and wasn't captured) and Lothar 4 (or 3 if he didn't do Ball).
Old 31 December 2000, 05:59 AM   #2
Posts: n/a

Found another one: Georg von Hantelmann with 3.

The fact that the current list only consists of Germans should stimulate some people in giving their own entries, don't you think so?
Old 31 December 2000, 07:52 AM   #3
Posts: n/a

I very much doubt that Hartney was brought down by Von R. He and his book have not been concidered all that reliable (read:believable) among many of the historians I deal with. And L. Von R. had nothing to do with Balls' death. I do agree that it IS interesting though...
Old 31 December 2000, 10:23 AM   #4
Forum Ace of Aces
Barrett's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: The American West
Posts: 5,676

See Grub Street's "Who Downed the Aces of WWI?" which is reviewed on this site.
Barrett is offline  
Old 31 December 2000, 03:24 PM   #5
Senior Gunfighter
Shooter's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 1998
Location: Jacksonville, NC

LvR did not frag Albert Ball. In fact, near as I can tell, he never even put in a claim for that victory.


Shooter sends

PS: Happy New Year, all.
In God we trust, everyone else keep your hands where I can see them!
Only the hits count. The only thing worse than a miss is a slow miss.
There is no second-place award for a gunfight. Never bring a knife.
Shooter is offline  
Old 1 January 2001, 07:46 AM   #6
Forum Ace of Aces
Graeme's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Kent, England
Posts: 5,525


Lothar made two claims on 7 May 1917, the first being over a Nieuport west of Biache; since Ball was not flying his Nieuport at the time of his death, we can safely ignore that claim.

The second claim has always been stated as being over a Sopwith Triplane (confirmed by German ground observers); no Triplanes were lost that day. Most accounts tend to agree that Ball was actually chasing Lothar when both planes entered the cloud and that Ball's SE5 emerged from the cloud inverted. There has been some conjecture that Ball either became disoriented and pulled the stick back (thus flying into the ground) or had been concussed by a drum of ammunition hitting his head as he reloaded the Lewis gun, or that he had been hit on the head by the Lewis gun as he lowered it, a not unknown event.

As far as I'm aware Lothar made no personal claim over Ball and the account of events in "The Red Knight Of Germany" (pages 281-283) has it that Ball wounded Lothar who then fainted and crashed.

I agree that it is unlikely that Lothar shot down Ball, but that leaves two questions unanswered - who, if anyone, did shoot down Albert Ball and what, if not a Triplane and Ball's SE5, did Lothar bring down?

Happy New Millennium

Graeme is offline  
Old 1 January 2001, 08:43 AM   #7
Count Holck
Posts: n/a

Paul Billik had at least six on his resume including Malone and Carter off the top of my head.


Old 1 January 2001, 09:59 AM   #8
Posts: n/a

I can only determine 5 from The Aerodrome: Cairnes, Carter, Claydon, Malone and Trollope. Care to tell me (and the webmaster) the sixth?
Old 1 January 2001, 01:11 PM   #9
Terry McCormick
Posts: n/a

Didn't Gerald Birks account for two Austro-Hungarian aces?
Old 1 January 2001, 02:10 PM   #10
Two-seater Pilot
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 120

Gerald Birks is credited with shooting down 2 aces:
Josef Kiss (19 victories)
Karl Patzelt (5 victories)
Scotty is offline  


ace vs ace

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Gotha Killers cspellman People 32 29 September 2003 01:42 PM
Zeppelin killers of 39(HD) Intrepid Aircraft 0 27 February 2003 08:55 AM
Camels as pilot killers Brad 2001 39 19 July 2001 03:09 PM

As an Amazon Associate we earn from qualifying purchases.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:17 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1997 - 2023 The Aerodrome