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2000 Closed threads from 2000 (read only)

 
 
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Old 31 December 2000, 05:43 AM   #1
J
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Can someone construct a list of all WW1 fighter pilots who scored victories against at least two aces?
Two that immediately come to my mind are both the Richthofen brothers: Manfred had 7 (Hartney isn't mentioned on his page probably as he survived and wasn't captured) and Lothar 4 (or 3 if he didn't do Ball).
 
Old 31 December 2000, 05:59 AM   #2
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Found another one: Georg von Hantelmann with 3.

The fact that the current list only consists of Germans should stimulate some people in giving their own entries, don't you think so?
 
Old 31 December 2000, 07:52 AM   #3
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I very much doubt that Hartney was brought down by Von R. He and his book have not been concidered all that reliable (read:believable) among many of the historians I deal with. And L. Von R. had nothing to do with Balls' death. I do agree that it IS interesting though...
 
Old 31 December 2000, 10:23 AM   #4
Barrett
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See Grub Street's "Who Downed the Aces of WWI?" which is reviewed on this site.
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Old 31 December 2000, 03:24 PM   #5
Shooter
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LvR did not frag Albert Ball. In fact, near as I can tell, he never even put in a claim for that victory.

VBR

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PS: Happy New Year, all.
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Old 1 January 2001, 07:46 AM   #6
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Shooter

Lothar made two claims on 7 May 1917, the first being over a Nieuport west of Biache; since Ball was not flying his Nieuport at the time of his death, we can safely ignore that claim.

The second claim has always been stated as being over a Sopwith Triplane (confirmed by German ground observers); no Triplanes were lost that day. Most accounts tend to agree that Ball was actually chasing Lothar when both planes entered the cloud and that Ball's SE5 emerged from the cloud inverted. There has been some conjecture that Ball either became disoriented and pulled the stick back (thus flying into the ground) or had been concussed by a drum of ammunition hitting his head as he reloaded the Lewis gun, or that he had been hit on the head by the Lewis gun as he lowered it, a not unknown event.

As far as I'm aware Lothar made no personal claim over Ball and the account of events in "The Red Knight Of Germany" (pages 281-283) has it that Ball wounded Lothar who then fainted and crashed.

I agree that it is unlikely that Lothar shot down Ball, but that leaves two questions unanswered - who, if anyone, did shoot down Albert Ball and what, if not a Triplane and Ball's SE5, did Lothar bring down?

Happy New Millennium

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Old 1 January 2001, 08:43 AM   #7
Count Holck
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Paul Billik had at least six on his resume including Malone and Carter off the top of my head.

VBR,

Holck
 
Old 1 January 2001, 09:59 AM   #8
J
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I can only determine 5 from The Aerodrome: Cairnes, Carter, Claydon, Malone and Trollope. Care to tell me (and the webmaster) the sixth?
 
Old 1 January 2001, 01:11 PM   #9
Terry McCormick
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Didn't Gerald Birks account for two Austro-Hungarian aces?
 
Old 1 January 2001, 02:10 PM   #10
Scotty
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Gerald Birks is credited with shooting down 2 aces:
Josef Kiss (19 victories)
Karl Patzelt (5 victories)
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