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2000 Closed threads from 2000 (read only)

 
 
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Old 3 December 2000, 09:15 AM   #1
John L
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Cpl. E. H. Waller

It is recorded in "Heroes of the Sunlit Sky" that an observer named Cpl. E. H. Waller killed Max Immelman. Was anything but this brief biography ever written about him?
 
Old 3 December 2000, 10:40 PM   #2
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...he shot his propeller!
 
Old 4 December 2000, 08:14 AM   #3
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While RFC believed that Immelmann was shot down by 2nd Lt George Reynolds McCubbin (a South African) and Corporal James Henry Waller flying an FE2b of No 25 Sqn near Sallaumines in the evening of 18 June 1916, the Germans subsequently issued a statement to the effect that Immelmann’s synchronizing gear had failed and he had shot off his own prop (he had apparently done this once before). The RFC gave McCubbin a DSO and Waller a DCM in recognition of their 'victory'.

Other than one-liners in various texts, I've not seen anything like a biography of Waller.
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Old 4 December 2000, 09:50 AM   #4
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In an earlier thread it was suggested that Immelmann may have been shot down by his own AA.
 
Old 4 December 2000, 10:30 AM   #5
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None of the above are credible. The Germans were not about to admit that an observer hit Immelman between the goggles and the glory hogs made claims to everything that ever went down.

Does anyone have documented proof of what really happened? Enough of this latrinogram and third hand war stories garbage.

If he shot off his own prop, what was he trying to hit?

Who was Waller's pilot, and what did he have to say about it?
 
Old 4 December 2000, 11:11 AM   #6
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Waller's pilot was McCubbin who had as much to say about bringing down Immelmann as Brown did about bringing down MvR. Immelmann had attacked the FE2b flown by 2nd Lt J R B Savage and 2/AM N Robinson over Wingles before being engaged by McCubbin and Waller. Savage and Robinson were finished off by Max Mulzer and credited as his fourth victory. McCubbin and Waller reported that after Waller had fired at the Fokker it dived down a short way then broke up in the air.
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Old 4 December 2000, 11:30 AM   #7
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Combat reports are freely available at the PRO. You should find McCubbin's and Waller's combat report in AIR 1/1221/204/5/2634. Failing that, you might want to try the 25 Sqn Record Book for June 1916 - AIR 1/1379/204/24/4. Somewhere there'll be a file relating to recommendations for honours and awards.

As for German sources, you'd probably have to leg it to Berlin and find out what survived the Allied bombing in WW2.

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Old 4 December 2000, 12:04 PM   #8
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Thank you. That's exactly the information I needed. However, one question.
Wasn't it the usual thing to credit the pilot, whether or not the observer made the kill?
 
Old 4 December 2000, 12:45 PM   #9
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Yup. It was a big bone of contention at the time especially for FE2 crews where the only one with a gun was the bloke up front. Generally the pilot of a two-seater got credited with everything while the bloke in the back seat usually only got what he claimed with his own gun. Nowadays, people tend to think of the pair as a team and say each was entitled to 'share' the victories achieved. You'll see that very many gunners were quoted with low scores in medal citations despite having been involved in combats in which many times that number of enemy machines were claimed. Still, numbers ain't everything.

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Old 5 December 2000, 07:55 AM   #10
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Was Immelmann’s death caused by the crashing of his aircraft after the propellor was shot off ? This has been the subject of an earlier thread. This version of his death is attributed to Boeleke who was not present at the time but who subsequently attended the funeral. How Boeleke came by the story is not known. Another account has Fokker refuting the story of the shot off propellor. He is hardly unbiased. There does not appear to be a report of investigation of the wreck, just the conclusion that it must have been inspected. Speculation only.


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