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2000 Closed threads from 2000 (read only)

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Old 28 July 2000, 07:08 AM   #1
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I have a question about an insignia usually seen on the top wing of the spad XIII. Its a circle going from the outside red, blue and white for the inner circle. Was this used for the Lafayette Escadrille? Or was it an alternative French national insignia.

Thanks for any info,
Old 28 July 2000, 10:04 AM   #2
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I've often wondered that myself. Starting from outer ring to inner spot, I've seen French photos of a Neuport 17 that had red-white-blue and a Spad that had red-blue-white. Then again, photos of a British Sopwith Camel was red-blue-white and a SE5 was blue-white-red. To complicate things, it appears that the Neuport 28 and Spad aircraft, used by American pilots in 1918 were red-blue-white! I've never read any history as to what determined Allied Powers' aircraft insignias. Hopefully someone knowledgable in this subject can answer this enigma. At least the Germans were consistent with their black Maltese Cross!
Old 28 July 2000, 11:19 AM   #3
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if you saw a picture of a Sopwith camel with a Red-Blue-White cockade, I would suggest that it belonged to the US Navy. If you can get hold of the Profile Publication for the Camel, it illustrates an F1 Camel flown off the USS Texas, circa 1919.

British cockades were usually Blue-white-red, however, R.N.A.S. aircraft used a lighter shade of blue than RFC and RAF aircraft. The real exception to this, was in the case of home defence night fighters where the white part of the cockade was painted over in a dark colour - usually illustrated in colour profiles as a very dark blue, so the night fighter cockade was Blue-dark Blue-red.
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Old 28 July 2000, 02:40 PM   #4
Steve Dorste
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Red, Blue, White was US roundel, wasn't it? US had some 17s used for training. Though the 17th and 148th used Camels, they were marked as British since they were provided by and under the direct control of the British. But one other US Camel unit, the 185th flew camels purchased by the US and as such, I would believe, have had US roundels.
Old 28 July 2000, 05:15 PM   #5
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Thanks Steve, I don't know thats why I was asking. I do know of the US roundel that has the white star on the blue with a red circle in the middle.
Old 29 July 2000, 03:56 AM   #6
Steve Dorste
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THE one with the star was only used in the States. The Red, Blue, White roundel was used overseas. I questioned it only because I wasn't sure of the order of the outside rings-have always just looked for the light colored center to identify US aircraft in photos. Spad x111 with this roundel and the LE Indian head emblem would be planes of the 103 Pursuit Squadron-what the Lafayette Escadrille became when it entered US service.
Old 29 July 2000, 05:37 AM   #7
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I found out the answer. I think its very interesting. Jim Streckfuss of Over the Front was nice enough to send me the answer to the question.

"The roundel pattern you are looking at was
first used by the Imperial Russian Air Service. By 1918, though, when
American squadrons started arriving on the Western Front, the Russians had
dropped out of the war, so the United States Air Service took that pattern
over and it appeared on American aircraft throughout the summer of 1918"

Pretty interesting.


insignia, question

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