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2000 Closed threads from 2000 (read only)

 
 
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Old 1 March 2000, 06:15 PM   #1
GMcManus
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Following up on a thread posted not too long ago:
I want to suggest for your consideration that to
look at the Fokker DrI "record" of victories
is too short sighted. The DrI was flown by several
of Germany's top aces. A good soldier/pilot will
learn what his weapon will teach him. This learning is valuable (and applicable) in other
situations/aircraft. All of this is to say that
the air war (or history, for that matter) is not
just either men or machine. It is what men can
do with machines-- even machines that are later
superceded by improved weapons. I suggest that the
DrI was a decent aircraft and a darned good
classroom for pilots who would live to fight on
in the later/latest technology. Your thoughts?
 
Old 1 March 2000, 10:50 PM   #2
PeterL
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It's difficult to fault your argument and I for one won't try. Had the Dr1 come along a year or even six months earlier it could have been the supreme fighter of the day, but by the time it did arrive the dog fight scenario had changed somewhat and the hit and run attack (ironicaly something at which MvR excelled) had become the norm. Consider the Voss fight with the possisions reversed and a lone SE5 against six or seven Dr1's. There is a realistic possibility that the SE pilot could break off the combat and run for home.

my twopennyworth

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Old 2 March 2000, 02:15 AM   #3
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How many of the 320 DR1's were lost in action? Dpes anybody have an idea? How many victories did it claim?
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Old 2 March 2000, 02:32 AM   #4
Mark
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According to information provided by Frank Olynyk awhile back, the 320 front-line Dr1's/F1's scored 250 victories. My memory is not so good regarding the number lost in action and by accident, but it was a very significant portion of the total -- not too many remained.
 
Old 2 March 2000, 12:39 PM   #5
Barrett
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Frank Olynyk's figures (taken from unit records) show 237 victories specifically credited to the Dr.I and 25 more possible, merely listed as "Fokker" which of course could overlap D.VIIs.
Since Jacobs, MvR & Voss got something over 60 victories in Tripes, only 3 pilots accounted for 1/4 of the total--not a big endorsement of the bird. However, the Camel was if anything even more of an expert's machine with approx. 80% of all destroyed credits going to the aces in comparison to the typical 30%.
Perhaps we should be less concerned with "the score" than with the actual achievements of the Dr.I or any other aircraft. Did the Tripe give Germany air superiority wherever it was committed? I don't think so--certainly not like the D.VII was capable of doing when concentrated in adequate numbers. In both instances, however, allied numerical superiority coupled with growing technological advances overwhelmed the best Germany could provide--as with the jets 25 years later.
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Old 7 March 2000, 09:48 AM   #6
Paul
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If there were more sophisticated aircraft at the time Manfred von Richthofen was killed (like the Fokker DVII) why was he flying an inferior aircraft like the Dr1 when he was killed?
 
Old 7 March 2000, 08:05 PM   #7
David Watts
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Paul,

Take a look at the thread of Feb.28 "MvR and the Fokker D.VII". We've been discussing this very subject of "IF" MvR could've been in a Fokker D.VII on April 21st.

Best,
Dave
 
Old 8 March 2000, 09:06 AM   #8
G. Jacobs
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Hello All,

Personally I think the Dr1 was a much over-rated aircraft, its reputation enhanced greatly by the exploits and demise of MvR and Voss. It was not an ideal aircraft for those who preferred the hit-and-run tactics or those who wished to escape at the first sign of trouble.

But for a skillful pilot who liked to stick around and fight, it was highly manueverable and thus had an advantage in close quarters combat. By the time of Mvr's death, tactics had changed away from the dogfight to the hit-and-run attack.

Still in the hands of a capable (and lucky) pilot, the Dr1 continued to rack up victories, the most impressive record of all Dr1 pilots being Josef Jacobs, who continued to fly the plane well into 1918.

Best Wishes,
Gary
 
 

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