1/4 and 1/8 scale kits

[stevedrew]

Forum,

I just posted this topic in the model section when I spied this section.

I am interested in building and flying a radio controlled fighter. What kits are available and how much can I expect to pay for the aircraft and RC gear?

Any assistance is gratefully received.

Steve Drew

[Lyle]

You were right to post this in the general Model section, this area is really dead most of the time.

[Yousarian]

You have to research the flying aspect and add the costs to the model cost. Locally, there are only two flying fields available to RC modelers; both are clubs that cost over $100 a year. Both are a 45 minute drive both ways and both require a muffler on the engine. That pretty well kills it for a lot of WW-I planes.
I had bought a Balsa USA Fokker and was working on it, but gave up in disgust and traded off the plane and a whole lot of expensive stuff that I never would have bought if I'd taken the time to research the flying aspect.
All of the areas that I used for free flight and early versions of RC are built solid with houses...all of the way up to the mountain. If one had enough private property and a good landing field, far enough away from civilization to prevent disturbing the residents, it would be an ideal situation.
I'm seriously considering electric power or designing a circular muffler for radial type engines, since I'd like to build a radial rotary and attach it to a Fokker EIII...but, the Balsa USA kit is somewhere between 1/5 and 1/6 of full scale, which further complicates things as no blueprints exist for that size engine and you can't just switch gears to larger or smaller unless you cut all of your own gears. Also, it is an aileron wing rather than the original warping system. I do note that Arizona Models has a wing warper EIII.

[stevedrew]

Yousarian,

I have researched the flying aspects...There is a local club the flies every week at the Anzac Rifle Range (you REALLY don't want to crash there...retrieving your aircraft is PERILOUS)...No, of course they never fly when they are shooting and vice versa.
This is less than 5 minutes from my home. My problem is that I ride a motorcycle...getting a model plus radio gear onto my bike is, of course, impossible. But I live close enough to be able to afford a taxi, or maybe a fellow member could come and pick me up on the way.

I have researched the cost, experience levels required to build and fly etc...perhaps I'll go for a cheap trainer first, then build a larger scale when I'm more experienced.

Steve Drew

[DJ]

Yousarian, You paint a pretty negative picture. Where are you from, New York City?? I live in congested CT. USA and I belong to a club which is only $35 per year and we own the field. We had a bond drive anumber of us set up and purchased our field and surrounding land. As for you Steve Drew. There are many fine kits around, despite the fact that Yousarian had a bad experience, I personally highly recommend the Balsa USA line of kits if you are looking for a larger plane. Everyone I personally know who has built one has had a positive experience ( these include the Pup, Eindecker, N17, triplane, N28, and SE5). If you want something smaller and more managable, Consider the Flair line of WW1 kits. I have one of there 1/6th scale triplanes still flying that I built in 1981. For electric and a simpler model, consider the Dare line of kits. DON'T BE DISCOURAGED!!

VBR

P.S. My wife is learning to fly on a Balsa USA Eindecker.

[Yousarian]

I live in Tacoma, Washington. There used to be another club locally, but they are now gone. The two nearest clubs are a long drive and they are expensive to maintain. Actually, both of them cost just twice what it costs me to belong to the rifle and revolver club.
Is it a requirement to install a muffler on your engine?
If you go to all of the trouble of building a scale WW-I aeroplane, why do so many builders exit reality and install a string trimmer engine instead of building a model rotary engine? Plans and casting kits exist, though I've found that by comparing the dimensions with an actual museum engine, they are not the scale claimed, and this was my major problem.
One modeler on this forum was building a berautiful Gnome in quarter scale.
If you think RC flying is negative here, you should try rifle or pistol shooting.
Of course, before the yuppies began to overproliferate the species, we could go out onto the prairie and fly our free flights, controlled engine run via Austin timer and chase after it on our bikes. Some that got away even came home via the id plate on the firewall. That just couldn't happen today.
Twenty years ago, I used to watch an RC sailplane fly overhear for almost an hour a flight. Strictly forbidden today. And if you have a model rocket, it is confiscated and you are charged with having illegal fireworks.
I'm glad that you have all of the advantages you mentioned, but in this locale, they are gone forever, along with a lot of other freedoms we once enjoyed.

[Yousarian]

OK, the Bentley rotary engine may be a little complicated for most aeromodelers to construct from blueprints and castings, but yesterday I ordered up a print set for a 3 cylinder stationary radial engine based loosely on the Morton M5 of the '40's. It is .69 in. displacement, and it uses a 12" airscrew, which would make it suitable for some of the early birds (Pre-WW-I) that originally used the 3 cylinder Anzani. (I know that Anzani blueprints and castings are available, but this particular engine is of more modern design and somewhat better suited to actual RC flying conditions.) It is a four cycle that uses glow plugs. Induction is from the crankcase, much like the rotaries.
If you have priced multi-cylinder aero engines suitable for 1/3 and 1/4 scale, you know they are in the thousands. Beautiful, but costly.
Only concern I have is that it has short exhaust stacks, thus my question about local regulations concerning mufflers.
As I said, I will probably build at least 3 of them, so I'll be looking for homes for all but 1 of them. (That isn't my purpose in posting this, however.)
If the forumite who is building the Gnome or Bentley would chime in here I'd be obliged. Unfortunately, I lost all of the beautiful photos he sent me of the progress on his engine when my last computer crashed and burned.
Anyone else tired of flying with lawnmower engines?
Also, I'd be open to suggestions for an existing model of an early bird that would take this .69 powerplant.

[DJ]

Y, Have you ever built a running I.C. engine? A multi-cylinder?? I have and it is not a trivial excersize. Why not cut minature lumber from Bonzai trees, Spin minature cloth from stunted cotton plants. Seriously. Most modelers seem to find it challenging to securly mount a servo tray let alone hold tolerances of .001". I have and do build and fly engines and it is far from trivial.

[Yousarian]

I know exactly what is involved. The extent of my building experience is in re-working engines. However...
I have been in touch with Clarence Lee...some 30 years ago...and he advised me to buy a Sunnen honing machine, which I did. I also bought a turret lathe for producing multiple similar parts. And, I have prints for the radial engine with 9 cylinders that I obtained from the current supplier's father 25 years ago. And I have prints for the Gnome from England.
Each of those mentioned engines had fatal faults for my purposes...too big, too complicated in the ignition system, etc. And, as mentioned above, the Fokker I bought from Balsa USA had a 6" i.d. cowling...what you could call "standoff scale." I called it "Stand way heckandgone off scale." I pestered several forumites about re-scaling prints some three years ago, but the reduction made purchase of suitable gears impossible (probably the reason why they were the size they were in the first place.)
As for holding tolerances of a thou...well, I think that I could manage that. I've been a pistolsmith for over fifty years. The dimensions of barrel o.d. and bushing i.d. are less than 5 TEN thousandths apart. (Thank you, Sunnen MBB1660 honing machine.)
Incidentally, my web site is:
Thesightshop.org
With that out of the way, I once again question why this forumn is not more hospitable to Model I. C. engine builders. The one magazine devoted entirely to them is not out of print. But, there are already several forumites who do build engines, apparently you included.
Since we now have a section devoted to early birds and this one devoted to RC, why don't we try to get rid of the lawnmower engines and replace them with aero engines?
And, incidentally, though you said it in jest, there ARE modelers who cut up bonsai trees for lumber. Ever look at the catalog from Micro Mark? (1-888-263-7076 to order a catalog)
I say again: Now that "Strictly I.C. is gone, why can't we gather right here to exchange ideas and progress reports?
And, someday, a simplified ignition system for a Gnome et Rhone product and possibly a miniature fuel injection system that is more efficient than a reed valve.
Remember: there are a great number of model i.c. builders that haunt the pages of Home Shop Machinist who would make great contributions to the RC hobby if they were treated right and made to feel at home.
Make a seperate section for them and call it "The Flat World and Round Engine" section of the forum.
And to all of the detractors and nay-sayers: Once you have heard a multi -cylinder powerplant popping, you will relegate your present engine to the background.

[DJ]

Y, I have 15 multi-cylinder engines under my belt and each has been a challenge. Of those 15, 12 were suitable for flying. (power vs. weight), I understand you are of a machine orientated back ground, but having the prints versus completing and running the engine are a different matter entirley. I am an engineer who put himself through college as a machinist and if it hadn't been for the patience and tuteledge of Merrit Zimmerman, My first project would not have run. I too morn the loss of Strictly I.C. and was a contributor (Kinner 1/6th scale). The average hobbyist has no more hope of building an engine from scratch as i have of being named Queen of England. Even I would not dream of putting one of my engines into a true competition plane as the reliabillity and operational issues would have me beat before I started. If you wish to have a discourse on engine building, I applaud it and will gladly participate. Just realise we will be lonley.

[Yousarian]

Did you; just a few days ago have prints and castings for the Kinner offered on eBay? I missed that auction by a few minutes.
If so, do you still have the castings and prints for sale?

[DJ]

No I did not but they are for my design.

[Yousarian]

I'm wondering whether the model Kinner is as cantankerous as the full scale engine. In '48 I logged some dual time in a Kinner powered Great Lakes (?) Student Prince. The Kinner leaked gas on the prime and required lots of effort in swinging the prop. The Curtiss Husky 5 cyl radial in the Robin, on the other hand, caught easily with a minimum of propping.
At any rate, I wonder if the Kinner is one of the airworthy engines you mentioned with a balanced weight/power output suitable for RC use.
If it is, do you know how to contact the gent in Canada who sells the castings and prints, or do you also sell them?

[papermache]

Steve,
I think Yousarian and DJ are getting a whole lot off the subject, so let's get back to it.
I second DJ on the BUSA kits. I'm finishing up a Nieuport 28 and it's been a wonderful kit. Besides them and Flair and Dare (also mentioned by DJ) there's Fun Aero. They have dynamite SE5-A and Albatros kits - all laser cut parts) in 1/6 scale and 1/4.
Proctor and Arizona Modlers have kits with great reputations (I have not built any) which are supposed to be the most "scale" of all. They also have the largest price tags. I guess it all depends on what you are willing to spend.
None of these kits will give you the "exact scale" model that some people harp about. What they will give you is an airplane that has a REASONABLY accurate profile and REASONABLY accurate proportions. They'll give you something you can detail to your heart's content, and something that will actually FLY, land, and fly again.
Yes, my model Nieuport has a "string trimmer" engine. It will give me plenty of power and good throttle response. Why should I waste my time building a replica Gnome engine? The original was an unmitigated POS that was difficult to maintain and dangerous to run, especially when you tried to throttle it. No thanks.
Good luck, Steve.
papermache

[Bengtson]

Hi,
You might check out my web site at www.aerodromeRC.com . We offer a broad line of 1/9 to 1/6 scale WWI laser cut R/C electric kits . Many are suitable for flying in your local school yard. There are free decal outlines and a weblog there as well.

[Ritter von Fear]

Arizona models do several fighters and 2-seater Aircraft from the Great War and are available in many sizes. Also unlike most kits you can buy all the parts for a 100% scale replica I have a Proctor E.III however they don't do cockpit parts. Wish I had the Arizona E.III instead.

http://www.arizonamodels.com

[greenknight]

Have you had a look at Glenn Torrance's web site?

www.gtmodels.com

He has quite a bit of 1/4 scale detail accessories for his Fokker kits, some of which may well be adaptable for an E.III.

I have his low-cost version of the D.VIII under construction. Nice kit.

Regards,

GK