Ground Kills ?

[PFFF]

Were "Ground Kills" aeroplanes destroyed/damaged by EA at landing bases ever
officaly counted as "Kills" by either the Allies or Central Powers?
(I recall a histoy of an ALlied Ace (WHitehouse History?) that reported among his "Score" were several EA on the ground.

[Frank_Olynyk]

No.

Frank.

[Graeme]

While I hesitate to contradict Frank, the answer is yes, provided it's in the context of claims in the Middle East. There are are number of instances where an enemy machine that had been forced to land was strafed and subsequently destroyed. While not technically an aerial victory, these seem to have been "allowed" in the make up of a pilot's or observer's victory total.

Also, whilst not wishing to re-open the festering wound of Bishop's victory total, there is a suggestion that the balloon claimed by him on 7 April 1917 had actually been hauled down by its crew and was on the ground when it caught fire. A contentious issue, since it can be argued that the conflagration resulted from his attack while the balloon was aloft (there's no way of proving that the balloon was not on fire whilst still in the air, but did not produce smoke until it had been hauled down).

In fact, there are a number of balloon claims that appear to have been allowed despite the balloon being on, or at least very close, to the ground. These include two by R B Munday (7 November 1917 and 21 January 1918), Ramsay (No 4 AFC) on 1 October 1918, Roy King's claim on 2 October 1918 and Palliser (No 4 AFC) on 5 October 1918.

Graeme

[Soderbaum]

Hm... :blink:

I hate this term "Kills", it has nothing to do with WW1 where all involved countries (except the Britions and probably the Americans) DID have official (but different) sort of victory systems...

For the German Air Force, as the "example" pointed out by Graeme where the e/a "had been involved" and followed by a German crew and destroyed by this German crew on the enemy airfield it would have been a fair chance that it could have been confirmed...
Another real example is a German pilot who flamed four enemy balloons on ground in 1917, the Kofl seems that they would be confirmed...but the Kogenluft decided other...

I am unsure if/what for example the Bulgarian, Russian and some other Air Forces decided about a destruction of e/a on ground "without" previous air battle....but the statement from Frank is the most likely answer...

:)
Gunnar

[Barrett]

There seems to have been an exception about "grounders" where balloons were concerned. EVR, ferinstance, was credited with two grounded Drachen. (But then he was CO and could confirm his own claims.)

[Roadhog]

Dear Graeme, I have read that the Germans used to get their balloons down quickly by having a lorrie or AA truck straddle the main securing cable to the balloon. Once the balloon was under serious attack, the truck would quickly drive forward over and along the cable quickly bringing the balloon down to relative safety. VR, Roadhog "Memento mori."

[Vin]

...In fact, there are a number of balloon claims that appear to have been allowed despite the balloon being on, or at least very close, to the ground. These include two by R B Munday (7 November 1917 and 21 January 1918), Ramsay (No 4 AFC) on 1 October 1918, Roy King's claim on 2 October 1918 and Palliser (No 4 AFC) on 5 October 1918.

Graeme
In his autobiography, Cobby describes as a technique or tactic, attacking balloons at sunset as they were being wound down, the theory being that the protective scouts had gone and AA was in relax mode. That might explain the 4AFC October claims.

Alternatively, it could be a bit of post-Ashes slipper sinking.

[topgun56]

Well, no conclusions here !!!!

[Graeme]

Must be Out Of Control, then.

[Vin]

Driven down ?

[Breguet]

Mission kill is probably the modern parlance.

[Vin]

Writing about activities in September 1918, Jack Wright writes (!!) "More balloons were being bagged about this period. The routine, as before, select them the evening before, note their positions carefully, then go out the next morning before daylight and drop your bombs on it."

In his squadron Statistics, Wright lists, as a claim, a balloon driven down. I wonder whose it was.