What is this cap ???

[hollowaym@ntlworld.com]

Hi,

I've been trying to find out what this cap is...
I believe i may be a RNAS telegraphy or observer ??

If you know what it may be i've be very grateful...

thanks Mark

http://www.collinsandhall.co.uk/myimages/pic1.bmp

http://www.collinsandhall.co.uk/myimages/pic2.bmp

[Purser]

Mark

Certainly the Royal coat of arms on the lining seem to indicate something British, and it looks pretty old in style, but we ought to discount the RNAS Observer and Wireless Telegraphist though.

The RNAS Observer badge had the same basic badge as the pilot, the body and tail feathers of the eagle being replaced by an " O ". This gilt badge was worn above the rank lace on both lower arms by officers graded (ie serving) as Observers.

The RNAS specialist badge for the Wireless Telegraphist was a lightning flash between wings, with star above. Worn on the upper right arm in either red cloth (working dress) or gold wire (best blue). Although RN ratings wore the traditional circular seamens' cap this only bore the cap tally (displaying the name of the HM ship the rating was serving in). RNAS ratings wore a dark blue peaked cap with the badge being an anchor in a circlet, surmounted by a crown (cloth for those below CPO).

Also, if it was a Royal Navy badge it would be a foul anchor, and not a plain one as shown.

Having something of an guess, it does look rather French in style.

Regards

Purser

[Jim]

I'm looking forward to hearing from someone who knows for sure, but my first thought is to wonder whether everything goes together or whether it might be a put together item. The British coat of arms in the lining doesn't seem to jibe with either insignia, and the navy radio operator emblem on the tally doesn't seem to go with the navy wings emblem on the hat. It may very well be right as rain, but my first reaction is to ask these questions since there is just so much fantasy and "put together" junk out there these days.

[hollowaym@ntlworld.com]

Hi,

Just to add a couple of comments...

The crown on the crest looks like a British style Albert crown which may help date it.

The Winged insignia is embroided directly into the cap not an attached badge.

The tally looks as its always been there, and i'm sure its original to the cap, its a perfect fit and has been sewn in at the back where it had a shaped fitting, so the rest of the tally hangs down straight at the back ...

I picked it up here in the UK in a, in a military dealers shop, who wasnt interested in British Naval stuff.. and it was just a couple of pounds..

Still confused ... :wacko:

Mark

[Purser]

The tapes which fall from the back of the hat are definitely not a British style.

I'm still wondering if it is French. There's some interesting illustrations on the ARDHAN website. (ARDHAN = Association pour la Recherche de Documentation sur l'Histoire de l'Aeronautique Navale).

See
http://perso.orange.fr/ardhan/symbolique/insignes.htm

The style of the anchors in the first two rows of illustrations is very similar to the anchor on the cap tally, partcularly in the angle of the arms of the anchor.

[CincinnatiRedlegs]

I do not know of the nationality on the cap, but I know that the US Army had a lightning bolt with chevron rank that was for electrical specialists that was used in the late 19th, very early 20th century. This is not a US Army cap, of course, but it could lead to some conclusion.

Have you also considered a private firm or company? This may not be a military sailor's cap at all. These are just some ideas that I can bring forth, I hope that they are of some help.

[Grovetown]

I don't believe the Royal Arms to be of significance, as it would appear to denote a manufacturer who holds the Royal Warrant ie has supplied goods and services to the Royal Household. There are currently 110 warrant holders under the 'clothing, footwear and accessories' category.

My immediate instinct is that this is a commercial item for a radio operator or other electrical technician on an air- or, even, cruise line. And again, like Purser, it has a European feel - French, Greek or somesuch - to it to me.

Best wishes,

Grovetown