Who Battled Jasta 11 The Most?

[Pips]

Is it known which RFC unit had the most air battles against Jasta 11? And how that unit faired?

And this is probably really stretching it, but has it ever been determined which pilot may have encountered Jasta 1 the most? Or even the man himself ie Manfred von Richthofen?

[tcrean7828]

Is it known which RFC unit had the most air battles against Jasta 11? And how that unit faired?

And this is probably really stretching it, but has it ever been determined which pilot may have encountered Jasta 1 the most? Or even the man himself ie Manfred von Richthofen?

Cobby,

I think it was 56 Squadron had the most air battles with Jasta 11. Insofar as Jasta 4, 10, 11 were formed into JG I around 5 July 1917, when Jasta 10 was moved to Marckebeeke airfield, Belgium. All of these Jasta' were available for air combat with the RFC, due them being co-located on the same airfield and any one of them could have a go at the RFC patrols as they were pleanty to go around.

Here is a note of interest for you:

Manfred von Richthofen shot down James McCudden as his 15th victory on the 27th of Dec 1916 at 1625, while assigned to Jasta 2. Manfred was flying his Albatros D.II when he engaged McCudden flying a D.H.2 (A/C# 5985) and shot him down South of Arras. McCudden obviously survived the encounter, because he assisted in the shoot down of his friend Werner Voss on 23 Sept 1917 when McCudden was assigned to 56 Squadron.

cul

tcrean7828

tom:D

[Graeme]

Cobby

In terms of casualties with a probable link to a Jasta 11 claim:

60 Squadron, 17 Nieuports (including Maj Scott who was unhurt)
43 Squadron, 17 (9 Strutters, 8 Camels)
16 Squadron, 15 (13 varieties of BE2, 2 RE8s)
25 Squadron, 13 FE2s
48 Squadron, 13 Bristol Fighters
11 Squadron, 11 (8 FE2s, 3 Bristol Fighters)
29 Squadron, 10 Nieuports
13 Squadron, 8 BE2s
40 Squadron, 8 (6 FE8s [one pilot unhurt], 2 Nieuports)
2 Squadron, 7 BE2s
10 Squadron RNAS, 7 Triplanes
45 Squadron, 7 Strutters
56 Squadron, 7 SE5s (but including Ball's "Triplane" claimed by LvR)
59 Squadron, 7 RE8s
1 Squadron RNAS, 5 Triplanes
19 Squadron, 5 Spads
55 Squadron, 5 DH4s
62 Squadron, 5 Bristol Fighters
209 Squadron, 4 Camels
4 Squadron, 4 (2 BEs, 2 RE8s)
5 Squadron, 4 BE2s
57 Squadron, 4 (3 FE2s, 1 DH4)
66 Squadron, 4 Pups
70 Squadron, 4 (2 Strutters, 2 Camels)
8 Squadron, 4 BE2s
8 Squadron RNAS, 4 Triplanes
84 Squadron, 4 SE5s
12 Squadron, 3 BE2s
18 Squadron, 3 FE2s
201 Squadron, 3 Camels
23 Squadron, 3 (1 Spad, 2 Dolphins)
54 Squadron, 3 Camels
1 Squadron, 2 Nieuports
107 Squadron, 2 DH9s
27 Squadron, 2 Martinsydes
49 Squadron, 2 DH9s
73 Squadron, 2 Camels
80 Squadron, 2 Camels
9 Squadron, 2 RE8s
21 Squadron, 1 RE8
24 Squadron, 1 SE5
3 Squadron, 1 Morane
46 Squadron, 1 Pup
53 Squadron, 1 RE8
64 Squadron, 1 DH5
98 Squadron, 1 DH9

plus another 57 claims for which I haven't been able to make even a tentatve match.

And, of course, Manfred von Richthofen (who then with Jasta 2/Boelcke) did not shoot down James McCudden, he merely claimed to have done so and was credited with the victory.

Graeme

[alex_revell]

tcrean,
Re Von R shooting down McCudden. His eyesight must have been pretty poor if he couldn't tell a rather large aeroplane, as was an FE2b, from the relatively tiny DH2. Especially as at this time von R had shot down a number of FEs:)

[Graeme]

Hi Alex

There was something to that effect lurking in the back of my mind, but I'm getting ready to go out for the day so couldn't get to all my notes. Thanks for confirming.

Graeme

[Pips]

Brilliant information Graeme, an excellent study. Many thanks. A surprising number of Tripes included in Jasta 11's victory claims.

I wonder though which Squadron would rate highest in the number of clashes with Jasta 11. Irrespective of losses and claims, after all there must have been a number of inconclusive battles.

And I wonder too just how RFC pilots would have felt given they knew that the premier GAF Squadron was opposite them.

[frontflieger]

Cobby

In terms of casualties with a probable link to a Jasta 11 claim:

60 Squadron, 17 Nieuports (including Maj Scott who was unhurt)
43 Squadron, 17 (9 Strutters, 8 Camels)
16 Squadron, 15 (13 varieties of BE2, 2 RE8s)
25 Squadron, 13 FE2s
48 Squadron, 13 Bristol Fighters ...

Hi Graeme,

what a great piece of information (and work!)
Thank you

Thorsten

[tcrean7828]

tcrean,
Re Von R shooting down McCudden. His eyesight must have been pretty poor if he couldn't tell a rather large aeroplane, as was an FE2b, from the relatively tiny DH2. Especially as at this time von R had shot down a number of FEs:)

Alex_Revell,

I had thought that only verified shoot downs were credited to the GAF at that time. and if he didn't, who verified it?

I have read that the RFC had the OOC - out of control- count, and the GAF was on verified - either from the ground or by another pilot.

Guess you learn something new every day her on the drome.

Thanks Alex,

cul

tcrean7828

tom:D

[tcrean7828]

Is it known which RFC unit had the most air battles against Jasta 11? And how that unit faired?

And this is probably really stretching it, but has it ever been determined which pilot may have encountered Jasta 1 the most? Or even the man himself ie Manfred von Richthofen?

Cobby,

Gooooood question!

cul

tcrean7828

tom:D

[tcrean7828]

Hi Graeme,

what a great piece of information (and work!)
Thank you

Thorsten

frontflieger,

I stumbled upon your web site and enjoyed the List of pilots from Jasta 10. One question? Was it Ltn. Barth, Oskar , Died 04 Oct 1970 or was it Barth, Adam, 1 Victory, Died 1918. / Albatros DV 4566/17, October 1917. Ltn (Vzfw) Barth’s Jasta 10 aircraft was painted: Yellow nose/white dumbbell. Barth was credited with 1 Victory and 1 unconfirmed. He was killed in early 1918.

Confused at the moment?

cul

tcrean7828

tom:D

[tcrean7828]

Hi Graeme,

what a great piece of information (and work!)
Thank you

Thorsten

frontflieger,

I stumbled upon your web site and enjoyed the List of pilots from Jasta 10.

One question?

Was it Ltn. Barth, Oskar , Died 04 Oct 1970 or

was it Barth, Adam, 1 Victory, Died 1918. / Albatros DV 4566/17, October 1917. Ltn (Vzfw) Barth’s Jasta 10 aircraft was painted: Yellow nose/white dumbbell. Barth was credited with 1 Victory and 1 unconfirmed. He was killed in early 1918.

Confused at the moment?

cul

tcrean7828

tom:D

[Graeme]

Cobby

If the engagements were inconclusive it will pretty near impossible to decide who was fighting whom - it would require sifting through the combat reports from either side so that details of each encounter could be compared; a mammoth task.

In terms of victories claimed over members of Jasta 11, those that I can identify, so far, are:

29 Squadron, 3
56 Squadron, 3
1 Squadron RNAS, 2 (perhaps only 1?)
24 Squadron, 2
43 Squadron, 2
10 Squadron RNAS, 1
19 Squadron, 1
20 Squadron, 1
209 Squadron, 1
6 Squadron, 1
60 Squadron, 1
62 Squadron, 1
70 Squadron, 1
84 Squadron, 1
148th USAS, 1

Graeme

[Pips]

Graeme, I am in awe of the effort you have put into your research. :) Absolutely fascinating.

Your right about having to pore through everyday combat reports to determine which unit/what person clashed the most with Jasta 11. A mammoth task. One that, perhaps, I may quite happily set myself come retirement.

[tcrean7828]

Cobby

If the engagements were inconclusive it will pretty near impossible to decide who was fighting whom - it would require sifting through the combat reports from either side so that details of each encounter could be compared; a mammoth task.

In terms of victories claimed over members of Jasta 11, those that I can identify, so far, are:

29 Squadron, 3
56 Squadron, 3
1 Squadron RNAS, 2 (perhaps only 1?)
24 Squadron, 2
43 Squadron, 2
10 Squadron RNAS, 1
19 Squadron, 1
20 Squadron, 1
209 Squadron, 1
6 Squadron, 1
60 Squadron, 1
62 Squadron, 1
70 Squadron, 1
84 Squadron, 1
148th USAS, 1

Graeme

Graeme,
Nice breakdown and looks like my thoughts were at least in the running, the top 3.

Thanks for the layout.

I hadn't thought that there were that many scrappers in the pot for Jasta 11 to mix with. but apparently there were!

thanks

cul

tcrean7828

tom:D

[StephenLawson]

Cobby

In terms of casualties with a probable link to a Jasta 11 claim:

60 Squadron, 17 Nieuports (including Maj Scott who was unhurt)
43 Squadron, 17 (9 Strutters, 8 Camels)
16 Squadron, 15 (13 varieties of BE2, 2 RE8s)
25 Squadron, 13 FE2s
48 Squadron, 13 Bristol Fighters
11 Squadron, 11 (8 FE2s, 3 Bristol Fighters)
29 Squadron, 10 Nieuports
13 Squadron, 8 BE2s
40 Squadron, 8 (6 FE8s [one pilot unhurt], 2 Nieuports)
2 Squadron, 7 BE2s
10 Squadron RNAS, 7 Triplanes
45 Squadron, 7 Strutters
56 Squadron, 7 SE5s (but including Ball's "Triplane" claimed by LvR)
59 Squadron, 7 RE8s
1 Squadron RNAS, 5 Triplanes
19 Squadron, 5 Spads
55 Squadron, 5 DH4s
62 Squadron, 5 Bristol Fighters
209 Squadron, 4 Camels
4 Squadron, 4 (2 BEs, 2 RE8s)
5 Squadron, 4 BE2s
57 Squadron, 4 (3 FE2s, 1 DH4)
66 Squadron, 4 Pups
70 Squadron, 4 (2 Strutters, 2 Camels)
8 Squadron, 4 BE2s
8 Squadron RNAS, 4 Triplanes
84 Squadron, 4 SE5s
12 Squadron, 3 BE2s
18 Squadron, 3 FE2s
201 Squadron, 3 Camels
23 Squadron, 3 (1 Spad, 2 Dolphins)
54 Squadron, 3 Camels
1 Squadron, 2 Nieuports
107 Squadron, 2 DH9s
27 Squadron, 2 Martinsydes
49 Squadron, 2 DH9s
73 Squadron, 2 Camels
80 Squadron, 2 Camels
9 Squadron, 2 RE8s
21 Squadron, 1 RE8
24 Squadron, 1 SE5
3 Squadron, 1 Morane
46 Squadron, 1 Pup
53 Squadron, 1 RE8
64 Squadron, 1 DH5
98 Squadron, 1 DH9

plus another 57 claims for which I haven't been able to make even a tentatve match.

And, of course, Manfred von Richthofen (who then with Jasta 2/Boelcke) did not shoot down James McCudden, he merely claimed to have done so and was credited with the victory.

Graeme

Most impressive Graeme! You are the man!