Any Morane-Saulnier LA and P fans out there?

[Cigogne]

I have been chipping away at creating some profiles of the Morane-Saulnier Types LA and P. I am looking for photos that show the details of the types, specifically the differences between them. Also, the sub-types in between the two, like the British MoS 21 w/ retrofitted with the 80 h.p. LeRhone instead of the 110 h.p. with the smaller spinner as well as the massive type N spinnered version.

Any colleagues out there who are Morane fans who would be willing to help?

Aaron

[Jim]

I have an original data plate from a Morane Saulnier along the its original engine timing plate that I have tried researching off an on over the years to little avail. I posted photos of them on this forum several years ago and was met with silence which I took to mean no one had any information on production of these in the way it exists for many other kinds of WW I aircraft.

The best I have found so far is that there were a total of 565 made (either just Type P or combined Type P plus Type LA - it is unclear in the references I have seen) and the Type P was made in variations that included a two-seat reconnaisance version and two single-seat fighter versions.

I will try to repost photos of these old data plates from this aircraft in a day or so.

[Sreiko]

Interesting- last day's I think about to start one oil art with one Russian Morane in action.

[Jim]

I think the Immelmann's seventh victory was shooting down a Morane-Saulnier Type P. I do not know if it was a French one (likely) or which variant it was.

[Rod_Filan]

I think the Immelmann's seventh victory was shooting down a Morane-Saulnier Type P. I do not know if it was a French one (likely) or which variant it was.
Jim,
You're quite right about Immelmann's 7th.
http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/aircraft/33614-breguet-s-crash-file-137-a.html

Cheers
Rod

[Cigogne]

Jim, Rod, Sreiko, et al,

Immelmann's 7th was a Morane-Saulnier LA with an 80 h.p. LeRhone. The type P (Type XXI) came out later and had some significant differences to cabane, aileron control, engine installation, cowling, and landing gear. There is a lot of confusion between these types. I am wanting to sort these things out in an article with photos, drawings, etc.

[Jim]

Here are some photos of my data plates that were taken from a Morane-Saulnier Type P during the war by a US soldier. I obtained them from his grandson but he had no information other than his grandfather had brought them back from the war.

If anyone has any information of any kind on the aircraft from which these plates were taken I would very much appreciate hearing about it.

The first is the main data plate. The fields read:
No. I533
Série P
No. 408

Note that the first number uses a letter 'I' as the first punch mark followed by the numbers 533.

I am not sure why there are two number fields, but my guess is the second number is the sequential number of the Type P models that were built which would make this plate from the 408th Type P of the 565 total type Ps that were built, while the first number might be a serial for all Morane production.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y109/KimoA/moranetypepdataplatea.jpg


The accompanying data plate from this same aircraft is its speed warning plate. It reads:

'La vitesse du régime maxima ne doit être utilisée qu'à la montée; dans aucun cas elle ne doit être dépassée. Dans le vol horizontal on ne doit pas dépasser la vitesse du régime normal afin de diminuer les chances de pannes.

As best as I can translate this with my poor 'Frenglish' this loosely says as:

'The maximum power setting should be used only when climbing and in no case should it be exceeded. In level flight do not exceed the normal power setting in order to decrease the chance of breakdown.'

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y109/KimoA/moranespeedwarningplatea.jpg

[Cigogne]

Where would these plates have been fitted on the aircraft?

Aaron

[Jim]

The speed warning plate would have to be somewhere that the pilot would have easily seen it or else it would not have been useful. In a modern aircraft such warning plaques are normally in a central location on the instrument panel near the instruments that tell you how the engine is performing. I should imagine that this one would have been in a similar location although I have no photos showing one actually on a Morane.

I don't know about the main data plate. On the one hand it would make sense that it also would be somewhere in the cockpit, but it is also possible it could have been mounted to the fuselage somewhere in the manner that some German aircraft had their main data plates mounted externally to their fuselages. External mounting allowed someone to positively identify an aircraft without having to get into the cockpit - internal mounted gave the dataplate some protection from being lost too easily. Hopefully someone on the forum has some information on where Morane-Saulnier aircraft of this period had their main data plate mounted.

Aaron, have you come across any information in your research so far that might help identify what variant of P model this pair of plates came from or any information as to its service during the war?

[Uhlan]

Cigogne,
I have been looking for data on the Morane-Saulnier L and LA. Have you had any luck locating data on these aircraft? I'm particularly interested in the French and Russian ones. There seems to be a shortage of books on aircraft like the Morane Saulnier L/LA as well as other types like the Farman 11 and the Voisin LA. Even French language sources seem to be scarce which is surprising since they were built in large quantities.