Bréguet's aircraft ID challenge # 755

[HoHun]

Welcome to the Challenge # 755! Please see below for the photograph of the to-be-identified aircraft.

Good luck!
Henning (HoHun)

The scoreboard after Challenge #754: Nieuport IV



133.90 Varese2002 ¤¤
95.90 Dave_Kent ¤
84.20 Rbailey ¤
35.40 richard B ¤
33.30 Cruze ¤
26.80 Aquilius ¤
25.30 Lodzermensch ¤
22.20 YavorD
21.35 Froggy
16.90 Flamingo
13.80 Rod Filan
10.45 GregE
10.00 Breguet
09.70 Dan-San
09.50 matte_kudasai
08.40 JohnMacG
07.70 EdStevens
07.60 trp81
07.30 Patrick
07.10 Colin A. Owers
07.25 Ermeio
06.70 Ampovandak
06.70 Berman
06.10 joegertler
06.00 Eric Goedkoop
05.90 Doc
05.70 AROTH
05.70 FOKKERJ Feuchtwanger
05.60 ercoupepilot
05.30 Crimso
05.30 Der Grüne Flieger
05.20 Maze
05.20 Gilles
05.10 bshatzer
05.00 Tom L
05.00 sobrien ..........................have to wait 12 hours
04.70 dpolglaze........................ may start immediately
04.40 Ross Moorhouse
04.30 edmondthieffry
04.20 Rufe
04.00 greenknight
03.90 Brad
03.00 SCMc
02.50 Gregoire
02.50 Rexee
02.30 ckingh5
02.10 Crankcase
02.00 austin08
02.00 Catfish
02.00 John McKenzie
02.00 Rickenbaron
01.70 Kilian
01.60 airplane176
01.60 sergio_vitalio
01.50 '14-‘18aviationcollector
01.50 Albatros_Ace
01.50 HoHun
01.30 Cigogne
01.20 Ransom E. Olds
01.00 Cliff
01.00 cubsfan4life
01.00 gregorydquist
01.00 Luf-Rick
01.00 Mike Westorp
01.00 paolomiana
01.00 Peter Zambori
01.00 rammjaeger
01.00 SL DIII
01.00 Tripehound
00.90 Stig Jarlevik
00.80 Machinbird
00.80 Mad Mac
00.80 tbstreet
00.80 toxisch
00.60 Sreiko
00.50 Martin Irvine
00.40 Vilkata
00.30 albapfalzd30
00.30 Miroslav Pokorny
00.30 Nieuport14
00.20 Paul_J._Fisher

Breguet's Aircraft Challenge™ (http://members.shaw.ca/flyingaces/br.challenge/index.htm) files.


The Rules

The thread title must be "Bréguet's aircraft ID challenge #......"

The score board, link and rules must be copied to the beginning of each thread, so that we know where we are. The score board and the correct answer to the challenge must also be placed at end of each thread.

The completed aircraft must have been either; designed, built or have left the ground during the '14-'18 period and be identifiable by the poster.

The photo must show the whole aircraft - from whatever angle, or at least 2 views of a 3 view drawing (photo by preference).

Challenges which depict a machine already earlier presented are disqualified (always check the list at Aeroplanes 1914 - 1918* -* Breguet's Aircraft Challenge* -- when in doubt !).

If there is any doubt as to the eligibility of an aircraft for the challenge details should be PM'd to Breguet BEFORE the aircraft is submitted.
Once someone has got 5 correct answers under their belt they become an ACE. Once they become an ACE they must wait 12hrs after the posting of the new challenge before they can post an answer.

To be eligible for correct ID an answer must include at least one characteristic of the aircraft that helped in its identification.

The first person to ID the challenge correctly gets to post the next challenge. If this can not be done for any reason Breguet himself will post the next challenge.

If an ace gives the correct answer too early, the challenge is over, he gets no point but has to post the next one. In lieu of the fact that the "novices" have in effect been "cheated" of their "exclusive" time that next post should be a relatively easy one. Anyone repeating the correct answer at the right time gets neither a point nor the right to post the next challenge.

The final arbiter in relation to questions about the rules will be Breguet.

[John McKenzie]

Hello , I believe that this is Michael Carlsons Swedish FVM / CVM 1919 Tummelisa exact reproduction .

Powered by 80 HP LeRhone ...Made as a trainer to replace their Albatros fleet ...Very compact and neat little machine ...There is a U Tube somewhere of it in flight ...Very nice machine .

The motor , the very curved forward wing tips, Swedish 3 crown markings .

JohnM:)


" 'Think I'll get one of those Muriel ".......
" I shouldn't Willi , ..You're close enough to your wings already ! "

[Dave_Kent]

Beautiful machine, but it may be too late to qualify…

Breguet?

[HoHun]

Hi John,

Perfect! :-) Congratulations, you're one step further towards being an ace!

I have seen the Tummelisa in the air, and it's amazingly manoeuvrable indeed. It also seems to have many designations referring to it!

Correct answer: CFM Ö-1 "Tummelisa"

Current Scoreboard:

133.90 Varese2002 ¤¤
95.90 Dave_Kent ¤
84.20 Rbailey ¤
35.40 richard B ¤
33.30 Cruze ¤
26.80 Aquilius ¤
25.30 Lodzermensch ¤
22.20 YavorD
21.35 Froggy
16.90 Flamingo
13.80 Rod Filan
10.45 GregE
10.00 Breguet
09.70 Dan-San
09.50 matte_kudasai
08.40 JohnMacG
07.70 EdStevens
07.60 trp81
07.30 Patrick
07.10 Colin A. Owers
07.25 Ermeio
06.70 Ampovandak
06.70 Berman
06.10 joegertler
06.00 Eric Goedkoop
05.90 Doc
05.70 AROTH
05.70 FOKKERJ Feuchtwanger
05.60 ercoupepilot
05.30 Crimso
05.30 Der Grüne Flieger
05.20 Maze
05.20 Gilles
05.10 bshatzer
05.00 Tom L
05.00 sobrien ..........................have to wait 12 hours
04.70 dpolglaze........................ may start immediately
04.40 Ross Moorhouse
04.30 edmondthieffry
04.20 Rufe
04.00 greenknight
03.90 Brad
03.00 John McKenzie
03.00 SCMc
02.50 Gregoire
02.50 Rexee
02.30 ckingh5
02.10 Crankcase
02.00 austin08
02.00 Catfish
02.00 Rickenbaron
01.70 Kilian
01.60 airplane176
01.60 sergio_vitalio
01.50 '14-‘18aviationcollector
01.50 Albatros_Ace
01.50 HoHun
01.30 Cigogne
01.20 Ransom E. Olds
01.00 Cliff
01.00 cubsfan4life
01.00 gregorydquist
01.00 Luf-Rick
01.00 Mike Westorp
01.00 paolomiana
01.00 Peter Zambori
01.00 rammjaeger
01.00 SL DIII
01.00 Tripehound
00.90 Stig Jarlevik
00.80 Machinbird
00.80 Mad Mac
00.80 tbstreet
00.80 toxisch
00.60 Sreiko
00.50 Martin Irvine
00.40 Vilkata
00.30 albapfalzd30
00.30 Miroslav Pokorny
00.30 Nieuport14
00.20 Paul_J._Fisher

[John McKenzie]

Hello "HoHun" .....I think that the point awarded may be premature , as there is an objection to Breguet as it being "too late to qualify ",........ posted by Dave Kent .

So we must wait and see the decision , Thanks anyway .....:)

But even so , I do not have a photo to present for the challenge , and would have to pass on this task to someone else .

Regards John M

[Breguet]

I too don't have an earlier flight date than 1919, however the design work may have begun in 1918 to allow the aircraft to just according to the rule. So John can have the point but HoHun can post again being a bit more careful in this regard! Watch the rules boys!

[John McKenzie]

Thanks HoHun,....Thanks Breguet :)
JM

[HoHun]

Hi Breguet,

>So John can have the point but HoHun can post again being a bit more careful in this regard! Watch the rules boys!

Thanks for the generous ruling! :-)

As Dave correctly pointed out, the Tummelisa indeed didn't fly any earlier than 1919. During my research I had in fact found a site pointing out that the design was initiated before the end of WW1 so that I had considered the Tummelisa a valid entry anyway, but I admit that this site was a bit vague on the actual timeline:

Tummelisa CFM 01 - flugfähiger Doppeldecker mit Umlaufmotor (http://www.bredow-web.de/ILA_2004/Traditionsflugzeuge/Tummelisa/tummelisa.html)

I'll try to come up with a better entry tomorrow after having another look at the list of types that were already covered in the history of the challenge! :-)

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

[Rod_Filan]

Hi Breguet,

Thanks for the generous ruling! :-)

That was bending the rule a bit wasn't it?

Breg,

May I suggest a slight revision to the rules... from:

The first person to ID the challenge correctly gets to post the next challenge. If this can not be done for any reason Breguet himself will post the next challenge.

to:

The first person to ID the challenge correctly gets to post the next challenge. If this can not be done for any reason Breguet himself, or his designate, will post the next challenge.


That would about cover "it" I think.
-
Cheers

[Breguet]

Rules are like the crashfiles - as long as they can still be identified after being bent - I'll cope! :p :) :D

[Rod_Filan]

I suppose banning colour photos is out of the question then?

:camera::tnt::mad:


:D
-
Cheers

[Breguet]

What, don't like a little colour in your life? ;)And what about colour photos taken during the war- as in the AFC ones? :wacko:

[Rod_Filan]

What, don't like a little colour in your life? ;)

:spandau:FOKKERJ:apickel: adds all the colour I need around here :lewis:

And what about colour photos taken during the war- as in the AFC ones? :wacko:

Haven't we used up all those gawdawful green crates yet? :p
-
Cheers

[FOKKERJ]

What, don't like a little colour in your life? ;)

:spandau:FOKKERJ:apickel: adds all the colour I need around here :lewis:

Cheers

HEY! :mad:

I resemble that remark! :lol:

[Lodzermensch]

Rules are like the crashfiles - as long as they can still be identified after being bent - I'll cope! :p :) :D

Hi,

The rules must be bent – for this purpose they are established. ;)

Cheers

Marek

[Stig Jarlevik]

Guys

To me this aeroplane does not qualify for the competition. The FVM Tummeliten (official name) or Tummelisa (the popular name and its short form just Lisa) was never created during WW 1. The idea of this aircraft design was from the fertile brain of Gösta von Porat during his visit in France in the summer of 1919. When back home he left his sketches in the hands of Flygkompaniets Tygverkstäder Malmslätt (FVM) chief designer Henry Kjellson who made the drawings that same autumn. The basics of French design is very evident and was not surprising since France was very much the leading star in Swedish aviation circles during the 1910's and early 1920's.
The aircraft was intended not as a trainer, but a cheap single seat practice aeroplane for already qualified pilots.
That same autumn the first batch for six aircraft was ordered.
First flight was on June 28th, 1920
30 were built in total but during a rather large timespan, which ment that the same Government Company went through "name changes". Since the Swedish AF was created in July 1926, the company could not be called Flygkompaniets Tygverkstäder at Malmslätt any longer (Army Air Corps arms manufacturing company at Malmslätt) but had to change name to something more appropriate. This became at first CFM, Centrala Flygverkstaden i Malmslätt (Central aircraft workshop at Malmslätt) and in 1936 CVM, Centrala Verkstaden i Malmslätt (Central workshop in Malmslätt), but by that time no manufacturing was made any more.
Finally with regard to the title Ö 1, one thing is very important to understand.
The Swedish Air Force was created in 1926, BUT the designations of it's aircraft was NOT introduced until appx one year later. This is rather unfortunate for all those sticklers of details, since it ment that the Swedish Air Force were able to operate aircraft inherited from the Army and Navy which were written off BEFORE the new designation system was applied.
This in turn means that the number of aircraft operated by the Sw AF is not 100% the same as the number of aeroplanes operated under its later designation. Some aircraft inherited was operated by the Sw AF but were struck off charge BEFORE any new designation was applied to them.

Sorry about the rather long and winding answer, but I guess this is sort of a homerun for me.....:p

Cheers
Stig

[Breguet]

Thank you for the excellent information! Certainly adds to the knowledge pool around here - which afterall is what these challenges are all about. I guess the guys are just lucky I don't make retrospective rulings!

[HoHun]

Hi Stig,

>To me this aeroplane does not qualify for the competition.

Thanks a lot for your very informative post, even though it drives the last nails into the coffin of my challenge attempt! :-)

It's great to have so many long-pondered questions answered all at once about this remarkable little aeroplane!

It might have been a homerun for you, but it was a big leap ahead for mankind! ;-)

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)