Memorial Flight Strutter

[baldeagle]

WOW!

PlaneTalk :: View topic - Sopwith 1B2 Strutter (http://forum.planetalk.net/viewtopic.php?t=10677)

Sopwith strutter (http://memorial.flight.free.fr/Strutteruk.html)

Not a replica by the way, an original airplane, but still belongs here I think-




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[JoeP]

WOW!

Not a replica by the way, an original airplane, but still belongs here I think-

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I've been watching this one for a number of years now and it's come to a spectacular if not predictable conclusion.

They have more than a bit of original documentation and several original pieces of structure but I am unclear as to how much of it went into the restoration. These items are interesting in themselves and can be seen on this page. (http://memorial.flight.free.fr/Strutteruk.html)

Their claim to authenticity is indisputable in my eyes however, I myself am unclear as to what degree of structure and by what authority any particular restoration project can claim authenticity. My guess would be verifiable documentation and at least one piece of identifiable structure (as is the case here).

I wonder about this as there are a number of submerged fresh water wreck sites of various WWII a/c that may provide such opportunities.

[Rittmeister]

WOW!

PlaneTalk :: View topic - Sopwith 1B2 Strutter (http://forum.planetalk.net/viewtopic.php?t=10677)

Sopwith strutter (http://memorial.flight.free.fr/Strutteruk.html)

Not a replica by the way, an original airplane, but still belongs here I think-




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Double WOW... Very impressive. And the photos were spectacular!

[RAF56_Ball]

...Their claim to authenticity is indisputable in my eyes however, I myself am unclear as to what degree of structure and by what authority any particular restoration project can claim authenticity. My guess would be verifiable documentation and at least one piece of identifiable structure (as is the case here).

I wonder about this as there are a number of submerged fresh water wreck sites of various WWII a/c that may provide such opportunities.
The WW-2 guys I know that do "restorations" say that if you can get even one piece with an identifiable ID number from the craft (sorry, I forget the specific name of that number) they can do an entire build remanufacturing all other pieces or using referbished/servicable used parts, kind of like a major repair, and register/certify it with the FAA. It seems that many of the flying versions today were made this way, with very few parts original to the plane. Interesting.

I do not know what other countries require.

[Colin A Owers]

The Memorial Flight Sopwith is based on an original with parts manufactured to original plans - that did not fit! With the Aviatik they are making it as a CD model first to make sure everything will fit before they remanufacture it.

Colin A Owers

[JoeP]

The Memorial Flight Sopwith is based on an original with parts manufactured to original plans - that did not fit! With the Aviatik they are making it as a CD model first to make sure everything will fit before they remanufacture it.

Colin A Owers

That is interesting in that I found many discrepancies while modelling the Baby/Schneider. This appears to have been quite common for the era in general.

The conclusion that one comes to for production purporses, is that no two production facilities put out anything even remotely identical. Tooling and end product must have been shop specific.

The WW-2 guys I know that do "restorations" say that if you can get even one piece with an identifiable ID number from the craft (sorry, I forget the specific name of that number) they can do an entire build

That's also interesting in that it would seem then that "value added" to a specific project in terms of authenticity is a subjective or market driven factor. For example, if a Camel is built to factory specs right down to the fuel system and would be indistinguishable from original, how does one value that as opposed to one that has a single aircraft specific and identifiable component? Is the historical factor in fact priceless?

[Maxim08]

If I found two bays of an original D VII fuselage and built everything else, in Canada it wouldn't mean anything.
Canadian D VIIs were never licensed or certified as aircraft in the first place and so there is no procedure to retro-register it as it's former self. The other challenge, at least with the D VII, is that there are only two id locations: a metal 'cigar band' with werk number wrapped on an engine support tube, and the builders plate attached to a cowl. Unlike the armament and engine, virtually nothing on the airframe bears a data plate like WW2 military aircraft.
Of course the scenario of me locating 2 bays of a DVII fuselage is purely hypothetical.
Regards
John

[RAF56_Ball]

If I found two bays of an original D VII ...
Of course the scenario of me locating 2 bays of a DVII fuselage is purely hypothetical.
Regards
John
So was it an Avaitix instead?;)

[Dart]

For example, if a Camel is built to factory specs right down to the fuel system and would be indistinguishable from original, how does one value that as opposed to one that has a single aircraft specific and identifiable component? Is the historical factor in fact priceless?

In the FAA's eyes, the one with the authentic data plate is the real one; the other is just a replica, as it is the data plate that carries the registration and providence that makes the airplane.

One can say, if the aircraft was rebuilt ("repaired") around the dataplate, that it is the same aircraft that flew during WWI.

While we would think it would be intellectually dishonest, technically it would be true.

For sale: Roy Brown's Camel.

Verified by the authenticated dataplate, the actual aircraft that shot down the Red Baron can be yours for [outrageous sum].

Refurbished and repaired using the same materials and procedures using factory blueprints and other documents, this aircraft has been made airworthy in painstaking detail, including:

Fuselage restored from the ground up.
Wing spars, ribs, cables and fittings.
Seats, harness, windscreen, and instruments.
Leather combing hand stretched and stitched.
Interwing struts and wires
Landing gear and wheels hand crafted to exacting standards
etc.

Included in the purchase of this one of a kind, living historical artifact is a detailed book and DVD outlining how the aircraft that ended the legend of WWI was resurrected from the ashes to flight.

[JoeP]

In the FAA's eyes, the one with the authentic data plate is the real one


That is correct, I had completely forgotten about the data plate the single most important component.

Verified by the authenticated data plate, the actual aircraft that shot down the Red Baron can be yours for [outrageous sum].

I remember seeing this a/c for sale was it 2 mil?

However, there is compelling evidence that MVR was felled by an Australian field gunner so this claim is contestable.

Still, once "Official" authority have made a claim, reversal is difficult as in the case of Pluto's demotion as a planet.

[j ferguson]

But, but, Joe. The field gunner has never come on the market. :cool:

[JoeP]

But, but, Joe. The field gunner has never come on the market. :cool:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/60/24_MG_Coy_%28AWM_E01716%29.jpg

Ah! But I have Cedric Popkins hat! (second from right middle row).

Any Takers?

[ECramer]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/60/24_MG_Coy_%28AWM_E01716%29.jpg

Ah! But I have Cedric Popkins hat! (second from right middle row).

Any Takers?

Does it have an authenticating data plate?:)

[baldeagle]

Not to contribute to the vast thread drift, but the Camel that was for sale was never claimed to be Brown's, and the FAA doesn't require an original dataplate, you can just have a new one made, all they care about is paperwork. If you want to discuss all that please start a new thread.

Now back to the topic, the magnificent Strutter completed by the Memorial Flight-

From their web site:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-isZRoP1Jphc/TzxG812_4-I/AAAAAAAAAvg/wJKMM7m3N4I/s1600/strutter_news4.jpg



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[JoeP]

. If you want to discuss all that please start a new thread.

Now back to the topic, the magnificent Strutter completed by the Memorial Flight-

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My apologies for allowing myself a brief moment of levity.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-isZRoP1Jphc/TzxG812_4-I/AAAAAAAAAvg/wJKMM7m3N4I/s1600/strutter_news4.jpg

This image is particularly well done, ref the lighting and the silhouetted group. The photographer has managed to tell a story in that they appear to be exhausted after a long days work. This is first rate stuff!

[baldeagle]

And it flies:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-FQ4g_RTu3P4/T6BDQq5eAWI/AAAAAAAAAz4/RIhHdV2kHs8/s1600/Sop1.jpg

From:

Mmorial Flight Association (http://memorial.flight.free.fr/indexuk.html) , click on "News"



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[snipe]

Of course the scenario of me locating 2 bays of a DVII fuselage is purely hypothetical.


I'm coming over to your hangar.....

[snj5]

Mmorial Flight Association (http://memorial.flight.free.fr/indexuk.html) , click on "News"
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Wonderful website. Great videos.

[snipe]

There was also a snippet about it in the current issue of Classic Wings (http://www.classicwings.com/).

[Lufbery]

Beautiful!

I too have been watching their website and following the progress of the restoration.

That's a crazy paint scheme! :D

[baldeagle]

It was pointed out on the Key Pub forum that it looks like whoever painted the under wing camoflage worked in a pair of breasts, if you look at the shot from underneath...

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-S33PX7qodNQ/T6BDZqzQ-GI/AAAAAAAAA0Y/vadEBOaI0bU/s1600/Sop3.jpg



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[tede]

Totally authentic. All French machines included the breasts feature, pour encourager les troupes as they flew overhead.

Tede

[Lufbery]

It was pointed out on the Key Pub forum that it looks like whoever painted the under wing camoflage worked in a pair of breasts, if you look at the shot from underneath...



Well, it's definitely not a male plane. :)

[snj5]

I know I feel encouraged.

[Albrecht]

Memorial Flight Assoc. has a new video of the first flight on their website now.

[DDoud]

Beautiful! I wonder if a Rotec 3600 (150 HP) would be enough to power a full size replica strutter.