Any idea on this Allied Air crash?

[PFFF]

https://images.search.yahoo.com/images/view;_ylt=AwrB8o5YwARVp1sAFYOJzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTIzNW tuaGE4BHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDaW1nBG9pZANjNzRmYzAwYjFlMTBm NjBmMGQzOTIyMWY0YmU2MTkzYQRncG9zAzI3BGl0A2Jpbmc-?.origin=&back=https%3A%2F%2Fimages.search.yahoo.com%2Fyhs%2 Fsearch%3F_adv_prop%3Dimage%26va%3Dvictims%2Bof%2B the%2BRed%2BBAron%26fr%3Dyhs-mozilla-001%26hsimp%3Dyhs-001%26hspart%3Dmozilla%26tab%3Dorganic%26ri%3D27&w=1023&h=706&imgurl=i283.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fkk292%2Fray ban88%2F28%2520May%25202010%2Fzch33_zpsb35b925e.jp g&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.militarytrader.co.uk%2Fforum s%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D7267&size=75.4KB&name=aircraft+which+may+be+that+%3Cb%3Eof+the+red+ baron%3C%2Fb%3E+manfred+von+ricthofen+rare+...&p=victims+of+the+Red+BAron&oid=c74fc00b1e10f60f0d39221f4be6193a&fr2=&fr=yhs-mozilla-001&tt=aircraft+which+may+be+that+%3Cb%3Eof+the+red+ba ron%3C%2Fb%3E+manfred+von+ricthofen+rare+...&b=0&ni=192&no=27&ts=&tab=organic&sigr=11svomnqo&sigb=14oifmt0a&sigi=12ghphh81&sigt=12h8b1oqn&sign=12h8b1oqn&.crumb=z4nMwmr17xR&fr=yhs-mozilla-001&hsimp=yhs-001&hspart=mozilla

['14-'18aviationcollector]

Hi,

I think I have the original copy of that photo. If I do have it, I probably bought it from the seller mentioned in the account, militarytrader.co.uk. I have an idea that there might have even been a thread here about that particular photo.

[PFFF]

What is the handwriting say?

Possibly a training accident-in the UK?

[sergio_vitalio]

It downed RAF Be2c Western Front.
29575

[Volker_Nemsch]

.
Probably the insriptions on the left and on the right define the location of the crash.

Of the left inscription only "BOIS-DE-HA..." is readable for me and the arrow points to a place somewhere left of the photo. This would be a place somewhere in France.

The right side even more seems to be something for a native French speaking person and the arrow points towards the forest in the background.

Any ideas?
:huh:
.

[Raineranton]

Hi All,

maybe this helps...

Regards

Rainer

PS: I have this picture also in my collection. :cool:

[Volker_Nemsch]

.
The serial number belongs to an B.E.2d of 12th Squadron, lost on 17.09.1916. The pilot 2nd Lt Aubrey Frederick Albert Patterson was wounded somehow but managed to bring down his aircraft alive. He died of his wounds on 25.09.1916 and is buried on the Porte-de-Paris Cemetery, Plot: II. B. 22., Cambrai (then German held territory). It also seems possible that he was fatally injured when the plane crashed, but I don't know.

No observer (killed, wounded or POW) is mentioned, so it was flown as a “single seat aircraft” (as a “fighter” or with a bomb load instead of an observer?). On that day he took part in a battle with Jasta 2 but I did not find any corresponding claims by German pilots (source: “The Jasta War Cronology”).

What happened? Flak or a rare case of “underclaiming”? I don’t know…
.

[PFFF]

His memorial record
http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/566885/PATTERSON,%20AUBREY%20FREDERICK%20ALBERT

[R Gannon]

I would suggest 12 Sqn's 5873 was downed by Js 4's Ltn Berthold who was credited with an 'Avro' diesseits near Cambrai as his #7. Owners of TSTBF II will know this be was last seen in combat with a HA. I would suggest just another case of wrong aircraft identification.

A little bit of bigger picture - four 12 Sqn BE's were despathched to bomb Marcoing Station (hence no observers so as to increase bomb load) and they were escorted by six 11 Sqn FE2b's. Those which returned reported being attacked over the target area by upwards of 20 HA. Six of these HA of course were from Js 2 on their new Albatros DI scouts. Contrary to popularised perceptions Js 2 were not the only players in this often celebrated action. Js 4's Ltn Frankl downed one of the four FE's which did not return (probably 4844). A second BE was downed by Flak.

I am aware JWC postulates a 27 Sqn G100 (sic) as Berthold's victim, but the said machine suffered an engine failure deep over German territory, no HA involved. Again I caution people to be wary of who got who's in this particular volume.

Cheers Russ