Gotthard Sachsenberg

[dernancourt]

I think I may have found the where-abouts of Gotthard Sachsenberg's Blue Max in a private collection.
Does anybody know of any other medals awarded to Gotthard?

[VtwinVince]

More details please.

[dernancourt]

When I asked the question, at that stage I was trying to determine its provenance. Seeing if any others were out there, that might indicate a copy. I am now reasonably sure this one is the original, because of the information on the typed card with it, done in the late 1960's or early 1970's. It would be interesting to know if any other medals of Sachsenberg are out there?
Alan.
P.S. I have an interest in MvR, as Harry Heywood (my grandfather), was with Cedric Popkin, at the shooting down of Manfred von Richthofen.

[VtwinVince]

Very interesting connection to Richthofen, Alan. Regarding Sachsenberg's decorations, I am unaware of any in private collections that can be reliably attributed. I would certainly like to see images of the material you reference.

[sator]

I agree with Vince and would also like to see some photos of these items.

[Kirk R. Lowry]

Does anybody know of any other medals awarded to Gotthard?

Bonjour Dernancourt!

You are sure to be aware of the series of books written by the late Neal W. O'Connor about the aviation awards of imperial Germany; Volume V features a biography of Gotthard Sachsenberg.

In that book the following awards are noted for the celebrated naval airman
- Iron Cross 2nd Class, 26 April 1915
- Iron Cross 1st Class, July 1915
- Knight's Cross with Swords of the Royal House Order of Hohenzollern, 20 August, 1917
- Orden Pour le Mérite, 5 August, 1918
- Ehrenpreis, 31 August, 1918
- Knight 1st Class with Swords of the Ducal House Order of Albert the bear, date unknown, perhaps after the Armistice.

Salut!
Kirk

[dernancourt]

The attached pics are only screen shots, but hopefully you can get an idea from this.

[Kanzler]

Is that an Eichenlaub to the PLM?
Then I guess it is not real... only Admirals got that...

Greetings - Kanzler

[sator]

The attached pics are only screen shots, but hopefully you can get an idea from this.

It would be nice if the picture wasn,t upside down, then we could read what it says.

[VtwinVince]

Sorry, that PLM has nothing to do with Sachsenberg. It is a Rothe piece, produced in Austria (date unknown, but possibly post-WW2), and given that it has the Eichenlaub, not at all connected with a junior officer.

[dernancourt]

I am very grateful for your responses so far.
Your information and references are taken on board. Thank you.
Alan.

[Jim]

Also, the typed card is of relatively recent creation and as such has no value at all as provenance. Anyone could have typed it up to try to manufacture belief in a potential buyer that this was actually his.

[dernancourt]

Thank you, Jim for your contribution. The typed card has been produced by the Californian collector in the early 1970's when he was busy gathering items of interest from all over the world during his retirement years. The card presumably reflects the information told to him by the seller of the Pour le Merite at that time.
Responses so far received on this thread seem to indicate this medal cannot be a WW1 medal awarded to Sachsenberg, because of the apparent Eichenlaub which is said to date later in the WW2 era.
Further comments will be much appreciated.
Alan.

[VtwinVince]

Read my analysis again, the Eichenlaub was awarded to field grade and higher officers until the end of the empire, and was never bestowed upon a junior officer. Rothe & Neffe of Vienna produced a large number of these crosses, starting in the interwar period and apparently up into the post-WW2 era. They are of high quality manufacture, but do not bear any resemblance to award-type PLM's of the Imperial era, which were manufactured by only a very few select orders jewellers, such as Wagner and Friedlaender.

[regular122]

Could not agree more with Vince. I did an entire study on the Rothe in this thread here over on WAF (https://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/forum/ken-jasper-international-militaria-forums/imperial-militaria-forum/389758-a-study-of-the-rothe-style-plm?t=389820) years ago. Lots of banter in that thread but that just emphasizes the suspicion that all Rothe style PlM pieces should carry with them as most are fakes.

As to the Oak Leaves, there was no airman junior officer that received them and none would have been awarded later as the order ended with the abdication of the Kaiser.

Crowns were awarded by societies to those who held the award for at least 50 years as a commemoration but those would be few and far between. Steve