Sopwith Camels.

[Missy.]

I want to build a model of a Camel with the black and white checkerboard on the cowling and top wing.Can you tell me what Squadron flew them so my dad does'nt snap the wings off in a tantrum.
Thank you.
Missy.

[rudder]

Missy, those were post war markings for one Sopwith Pup in a training squadron not a Sopwith Camel. Serial no. B7575. I have a picture of this plane with the wings only painted and later with the fuselage painted in checkerboard too. The cowling was not painted checkerboard.
Unless someone knows better than me I think this is the aeroplane you were thinking of.

[Graeme]

Missy

I'm not aware of a squadron that had the markings you describe, but just to stop your dad having a fit Camel D8239 (Coded R and flown by Lt Clifford McEwen of No 28 Squadron) was pretty colourful. It had a chequer-board marking on the nose to just aft of the cockpit, with this pattern repeated on the fixed portion of the tailfin; the interplane struts were also striped. Opinion is the squares were red and white. There's a photo of this aeroplane on page 140 of "The Camel File". As far as I know this was a one-off since pictures of other 28 Sqn machines don't show similar designs.

Arthur Cobby flew an all-white Camel with a chequer-board design on the cowling (E7267 or E7287) while an instructor with No 8 (Training) Sqn Australian Flying Corps, but that was after the war.

VBR Graeme :)

[cam]

>Arthur Cobby flew an all-white Camel with
>a chequer-board design on the cowling (E7267
>or E7287) while an instructor with No 8
>(Training) Sqn Australian Flying Corps, but
>that was after the war.


Cobby got posted to Home Establishment in the end of September 1918, just as 4 Sqn AFC was changing over to Snipes. He flew E7267 during the war as a Fighting Instructor. Below is an image of it.

Some other lurid Fighting Instructor schemes include Malleys all white Camel, Pflaums white Camel with red and white emu markings, and Holdens all red SE5a with white kangaroo markings. Known among the local population as the red devil. In the Australian Training Wing were also red and white striped pups, and a pup with a dragon from cockpit to tail.

http://users.rcn.com/kymcam/images/cobby_e7267.jpg



cam
Australian Flying Corps - http://members.nbci.com/pointcook/ (http://members.nbci.com/pointcook/)

[cam]

Here is an another attractive shot of E7267;

http://users.rcn.com/kymcam/images/cobby_e7267_2.jpg

According to Norman Cliffords paintings, there was a black check across the top wing as well as the spine of the fuselage. I also believe Cobby was attached to 5 Sqn AFC when with the AFC Training Wing. Gordon will most likely have more info on those.

Cobby wrote of it; 'In the meantime I had selected the best Camel I could find, and had it painted all white, except for a broad black check pattern through it, with draughtboard radiator cowling and wheels and tail fin similarly adorned. This was not personal conceit, other than the selection of colour, as the machine of the Wing Fighting Instructor had to be easily picked out in the air. My job was to "scrap" with all the advanced pupils as frequently as possible and this was a full time job. Nor was it a safe task by any means. In France one nearly always met opponents who could fly well, and turns were always cleanly made, dives and zooms were controlled almost to inches, but on a training station it was differant.'

E7267 also figured in the incident where Cobby and Malley ( in his all white Fighting Instructor Camel ) boxed in Lt Col Watts Avro when he was trying to land. They then stunted and looped around it. Their idea was, Watt would be so enraged he would send them back to France as punishment. Which was what Cobby and Malley wanted. Watt was angry all right but between Watt and Capt Matthews, they decided that Cobby and Malley should be commended for showing the pupils how the Camel was not a killer and could be easily tamed for stunting near the ground. Cobby and Malley left Watt's office as two crestfallen young men. Neither got to back to France as the war ended before their Home Establishment Tour.



cam
Australian Flying Corps - http://members.nbci.com/pointcook/ (http://members.nbci.com/pointcook/)

[Gordon]

Cam said most of it and posted those pics; all I can do is point you to the Australian War Memorial Photographic Database.

http://www.awm.gov.au/database/photo.asp

Choose 'Advanced Search' and try typing in the following Negative Numbers;

AC-158, A04093, A04094, A04095, D00129. or just try typing Sopwith Camel. Have fun!

[PeterL]

Blue Rider decal sheet BR516 is for an aircraft similar to that which you describe, except that it's RED and white. >Hannants (http://www.hannants.co.uk)can supply. Otherwise it might be this one, D8239 incorrectly marked 8239D, which served in Italy with a squadron which escapes me for the moment. Doubtless someone can fill in the gap.

http://www.escadrille.mcmail.com/trio/CAMEL2.JPG

cheers

Peter L

[Rod_Filan]

Here's checkered Sopwith Pup trainer B7575 (B7?75) (http://www.geocities.com/aerodromeaces/images/Flightschoolpup2.JPG) as Rudder described above (paint scheme completed).
I have this identified not as post-war, but 1918 at Edzell near Montrosee. Can someone verify date?

VBR

[Graeme]

I had though the Pup's serial was B7675 but on checking found out that this was a DH9 serial, so B7575 it is.

[cam]

Another attractive Pup. This was with the Australian Flying Corps Training Wing but unfortunately I dont know what squadron A6428 was with. Notice the elaborate Dragon down the length of its fuselage.

http://users.rcn.com/kymcam/images/1WAFC_pup_A6248.jpg



cam
AFC - Australian Flying Corps Website (http://members.xoom.com/pointcook/index.htm )

[Rod_Filan]

Images are too large to post so here's links to:
beautifully striped Sopwith Pup B2192 (http://www.geocities.com/aerodromeaces/images/FlightSchoolPup1.JPG) at School of Special Flying at Gosport and
No.8 Naval Sopwith Camel "Happy Hawkins" & D.M.B. Galbraith (http://www.geocities.com/aerodromeaces/images/Galbraith.JPG) at RNAS Sandown, Isle of Wright
- a very interesting white outline scheme.

VBR

[Missy.]

Thank you everbody for your help. My next six month spending money is going on stripy and checkered Camels.