Battle of Britain Museum

[Barrett]

Almost 20 years ago I visited Hendon and had a marvelous time at the museums, then limited to the RAF and Battle of Britain Museums (I understand there's a separate Bomber Command Museum now.) I seem to recall some WW I exhibits dealing with zeps and such. Even got to shake Sir Douglas Bader's hand--the only time anyone ever addressed me as "old chap."
Anyway, a web search leads me to believe that the BoB Museum as such no longer exists. I infer that it's been absorbed by the RAF Museum and is represented within that context rather than by itself. Current info would be welcome. Thank you--chaps.

[Kory Clark]

Man you lead a charmed life, what other famous aces have yuo shaken hands with?

Sorry I don't know If the museum is still active.

[Hans Trauner]

Yes, so it is.
Looking at http://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/IndexHendon.cfm
you'll see that they have all the exhibits the 'old BoB Museum' hat. But as far I could remember, I would not say, that the BoB Museum was 'absorbed'. It was enlarged!

[hans trauner]

Ooops! I have just dicovered a Fokker DVII on the RAF's museum homepage
http://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/index_collections.cfm
The Fokker wasn't there when I last visit in 1990. Is it a genuine Fokker or a replica?

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Hans:
It is the real McCoy! I believe it was originally with Jasta 18. Atleast they use to paint it up as such. The recently completed it's restoration.
Blau Himmel,
Dan-San Abbott

[Barrett]

Thanks to all you chaps who responded; I could not tell whether the BoB Museum was absorbed by the RAF Museum or what. When I was there the BoB and RAF Museums were separate; the Bomber Command Museum wasn't finished.
MAN, that Lancaster is impressive! Usually flown by one sergeant. Who says you need a college diploma to fly military aeroplanes???
Kory, the meeting with Sir Douglas was strictly coincidence. Even though I already had his book, I bought one from him just to have the signature. The other RAF types I've hosted on symposium panels include JE Johnson and the late Geoffrey Page ("Tale of a Guinea Pig"). Among the Luftwaffe vets, I was fortunate to get to know Dolfo Galland fairly well; an extremely impressive leader. Steinhoff, Rall, Falck, as well. Gunther Rall is a hoot--tremendous sense of humor.
Frank Olynyk and I probably got to KNOW more US aces than any non WW II veterans. Naturally, I'm more familiar with navy/marine guys owing to the type of books I write but we've lost so many of the great ones recently: Marion Carl, Ken Walsh, Dave McCampbell.
Among the USAAF/AF guys, just saw Bud Anderson again this month; he's awesome, still flying Mustangs at 78, ready and apparently willing to load the guns and do it again. Check out the web site his son operates: cebudanderson.com for some exceptional illustrations and narratives.

[John]

Hi All,
It's all basically still there, just in two or three seperate halls. I went first when I was just a kid and then and every time since then I walk around as astonished as I was the first time.
You're right about that Lancaster, Barrett. I sit in front of it for ages and just stare with my mouth open! In the Summer in England, the last flying Lanc' is displayed at a few airshows. To and from these shows it flies at about 1,000 agl with a Spitfire and a Hurricane in formation. Last year, while standing in my kitchen drying dishes, I heard from a long way off the unmistakeable crackle of a Merlin. In fact it turned out to be six Merlins! The Battle of Britain Memorial Flight flew almost right over my house! Quite, quite awesome. My other favourite place at Hendon is the Aces section. In a small glass case lies Albert Balls' Army cap and pencil with a few other items that belonged to him. I stand and stare at that! It's tantalisingly close to a hero and I wish I could touch them.
I shan't be over for a while now though having recently, married a 'Jerry', and moved to Germany. Odd, really. For years I had a picture of a Pfalz over my bed. Now I have a Pfaelzerin in it!
Regards, John .
p.s. It's okay chaps. I'll never support the Jerries at the Footie!

[Michael Skeet]

Those who want a Lancaster fix don't have to cross the pond. There's a flying Lanc at the Canadian Warplane Heritage Museum in Hamilton, Ontario. Ottawa's National Aviation Museum, meantime, has a Lanc front end on display with a platform that allows you to climb up alongside the cockpit and look in. Pretty amazing.

And as impressive as the Lanc sounds, I think it *looks* even more amazing in flight. Sort of like a dragonfly, if you see it at the right angle.

[Ginger.]

The most impressive flight of the Lanc was the 50th anniversary of the Dams Raid.There was a carnival atmosphere at Derwent that day,but,when the Lanc came down Derwent Water you could have heard a pin drop.I found out that day that Richard Todd was an honoury member of 617 Squadron!!! He was a Paratrooper in WW2 and fought at Pegasus Bridge.
Have you heard of the other Lanc at East Kirkby Musuem?It's a none flyer but the engines run.They bring it out and do night time taxi-ing past the control tower.East Kirkby was home to two Lanc Squadrons in WW2,and the aircraft carries their markings.Wish I had a scanner to post the photos.

[Michael]

I'm spoiled.

Here in Oakville Ontario we're on the flightpath for the CWM Lancaster when it heads east (the last time being Remembrance Day). It is an unmistakable sound.

Michael

[andy]

RAF Conningsby in Lincolnshire is the home of the Battle of Britain Flight which includes several Spitfires, Hurricanes and the Lancaster. Visits to the station are permitted. Its currently an active base hosting Tornados. Well worth a visit.

andy

[Reinout]

John,

Germany doesn't need support in the footie area - they simply live by Gary Lineker's words:"Football is a game...":)

Kind regards,

Reinout

[John]

Reinout,
Okay, okay, the words behind those ....'s burn through the heart of every Englishman!
Aber, nur zwei worte: Manchester United!
bis dann, tschussie!
John.

[Ginger.]

If you like quotations try these for size.
"It's Hurst,some people are on the pitch.They think it's all over.It is now!!!"
Brings another quote to mind.
"If the British Empire,and it's Commonwealth should last a thousand years,men will still say.This was their finest hour".
And another.
"Football is not a matter of life or death.It's much more important than that".

[Reinout]

John,

Ouch! That hurts - I'm more of a Gunner myself!:) Anyway, I was born and raised in Nuenen, just a few miles away from Eindhoven. That name will mean somthing to you now (as does the name Kezman). But before you clobber me with the results, yes, I am aware that MU proceded to the second round while my side suffered an ignominious defeat at the hands of RSC Anderlecht... Still have nightmares over that one!:)

As for quotes: I liked those, even though I knew them all already. I used to read Total Football for a while and I try to watch Match of the Day every week (varying success) as well as catch a few sports jokes on "They think it's all over". Not sure what that Churchill quote was in there for... We were talking football, not war.

As for that Hurst ball, well, I could argue that it wasn't over the line as many have done before me. There are several WC finals that haven't gone fair anyway:
-1954: Germany vs Hungary. Hungary scored a goal which was consequently banned for offside. The reel of film however mysteriously fades to black at the moment supreme and then comes back to normal again immediately after the goal...
-1966: home referees helped a lot and there was this Hurst-ball-line thing.
-1974: Holzenbein later (few years back) admitted that he dived when the referee awarded a penalty (German equaliser).
-1978: let's face it: Videla insisted on a WC success at all costs and those costs included referee's, street folk, Peru etc....

After this, I stopped recording the events.

One very cool quote comes from an English comedian who supports Birmingham City (in itself a joke perhaps?:)). He once said:"Ah well, you lose some, you draw some." when Birmingham City was having a tough streak.

Kind regards and thank you for some footy fun.

Reinout

[John]

Hi Reinout,
A Gooner eh? I'm not (sorry, wasn't) a Londoner, but have been an Arsenal fan since 1971 (no prizes for guessing why..).
I'm sure you've read, 'Fever Pitch' , by Nick Hornby. If not, put it on your Christmas pressie list because it's a must read.

As for 1954 Germany v. Hungary I know nix, except wasn't that the year the Hugarians turned up with the idea of, 'total football' and beat England by 5-0 or something?
1966 If I was neutral, I'd be saying there was no way that ball could have gone over and if Germany weren't 3-2 down there wouldn't have been acres of space for the long ball to Hurst etc etc....
1974 Player dives for penalty! Do you remember Jurgan Klinsmanns' goal celebrations when he played in England a few years back?
1978 Videla. This one just about sums it all up. Inflated wages and the rise to supremacy of, 'The Agent' with his taste for expensive suits and fat cigars creates corruption which starts with a player diving in the box ( and only a fool now wouldn't ) and ends with executives and chairman bribing refs, players, or other coaches. Videla, Marseilles, George Grahams bungs!

Still, it's a bloody good game and nothing gets close to it for beauty, skill and nerve tingling excitement. I'll remember ManU v. Bayern 'til my dying day..

Regards, John.
p.s. You're right. You'd have to be a comedian to support Birmingham City!

[Ginger.]

I meant football with Churchill's quote!!!
Did you know the Dastardly Huns nicked what should have been Hurstie's hat trick ball?Thats when they really did reach the hieghts of lowness.

[John]

Ginge,
I think you should send your CV to Rupert Murdoch. You're wasted here and should clearly be editing, 'The Sun'.
Regards, John.

[Ginger.]

John,
the Sun is a rag full of claptrap,and it's filled with badly written roobarb.

[BillyH]

Barrett: My son seems to think that the BOB MBuseum was not absorbed by the American AF Museum, but occupies its old site at Hendon.
Barrett, I was shocked-shocked-not to see you at Murvaux on 18 Nov 00. In a town of 160 people there were more than three hundred flag waving visitors (Both French & American banners).
Do you have the webmasters address so I can get reconnected? Am writing this on my boy's Mac, as my screen freezes when the thread page comes up. Billy H at wphaiber@earthlink.net

[Reinout]

Will reply in detail on Monday. All I have time for now is to say that I have a piece of an interview with Hurst (I think) on CD and he told me about the taking of the ball. Years later, he met up with the German who took the ball and said something like:"You know, it's a tradition in my country to keep the ball whenever you score a hattrick." To which the German made an excellent and funny reply - which was the end of that story. I shall look up the reply.

Kind regards,

Reinout

[MISSY]

"To which the German made an excellent and funny reply"
"Ve are not asking Englander for you ze game is over.
Hursty replied.
"Tell that to us when you are marching down Wembley Way,and still we won't listen"