The most successful RFC/RAF Squadrons?

[Barry Hickson]

G'day All!
I presume 56 Sqd. was the most successful Fighter Squadron in WW1 but I wondered if anyone had compiled a list of say the top 10 Sqds by scores.
I would guess 60, 23 & 1 would be well up in that list as well.

Anyone done a list?

[Graeme]

From a list I compiled about a year ago for a similar question raised on another Forum, the squadrons claiming in excess of 300 victories are:

20 Squadron - 620
56 Squadron - 410
29 Squadron - 390
22 Squadron - 373
24 Squadron - 355
1 Squadron - 354
10N/210 Squadron - 352
48 Squadron - 342
40 Squadron - 335
60 Squadron - 333
84 Squadron - 325
45 Squadron - 301

Graeme

[Barry Hickson]

Originally Posted by Graeme

From a list I compiled about a year ago for a similar question raised on another Forum, the squadrons claiming in excess of 300 victories are:

20 Squadron - 620
56 Squadron - 410
29 Squadron - 390
22 Squadron - 373
24 Squadron - 355
1 Squadron - 354
10N/210 Squadron - 352
48 Squadron - 342
40 Squadron - 335
60 Squadron - 333
84 Squadron - 325
45 Squadron - 301

Graeme

Hi Graeme! The 20 Sqd total really surprises me. Do you think their claims were Kosher?

[Graeme]

There's documentary evidence for them, so they're Kosher from that point of view.

A closer inspection reveals the usual crop of duplicated claims, fog of war issues etc, but no more so than any other squadron, in proportion to the number of claims.

Part of the analysis I did, included the length of time between each squadron's first and last claim; No 20 Squadron's came out as 1,011 days (0.61 claims per day) and No 56 Squadron as 559 days (0.73 claims per day), so clearly, length of service was a determining factor in the number of claims made.

It must be borne in mind that squadrons operational in 1917/1918, operated in a 'target-rich' environment, so had greater opportunity to claim.

Graeme

[Barry Hickson]

Originally Posted by Graeme

There's documentary evidence for them, so they're Kosher from that point of view.

A closer inspection reveals the usual crop of duplicated claims, fog of war issues etc, but no more so than any other squadron, in proportion to the number of claims.

Graeme

Many thanks Graeme!

[Baron von Fustercluck]

This is great! Has anyone compiled this information for the squadrons of other nations? (I'm particularly interested in numbers of kills scored by French Escadrilles.)

[Gregvan]

Thanks for that fascinating info, Graeme. I've also heard that besides being top scorers, No. 20 Squadron also led all British squadrons - or at least the fighter squadrons - in losses. Is that also true?
Thanks, very much.
Greg

[R Gannon]

Originally Posted by Gregvan

Thanks for that fascinating info, Graeme. I've also heard that besides being top scorers, No. 20 Squadron also led all British squadrons - or at least the fighter squadrons - in losses. Is that also true?
Thanks, very much.
Greg

Hi Greg

Probably so. If nothing else, 20 Sqn's claims, however inflated by fog of war & duplication issues, indicate combat activity and they were in the thick of it over the German side 1916, 1917 & 1918. Never forget, fighting over your enemies side is far more unforgiving than fighting over ones own side - not only enemy aircraft, but Flak, ground fire & mechanical failures also took their toll. Far far, lesser chances of effecting forced landings own side that could be conveniently swept under the carpet.

None the less 20 Sqn got some illustrious scalps taking the war to their enemy in their own airspace - MvR wia, Schaefer kia, Ulmer kia & Gottsch wia twice, just to name a few. Further more, scores upon scores more of their much fancied Jadgstaffeln opponents were forced to quit fights and seek safety below and over their own territory no less. Yes, three years of both real and moral victories over an enemy who fighters rarely if ever ventured Allied side.

20 Sqn's record along with those of 56 Sqn, 1 Sqn, etc, etc are records to be proud of, particularly if you also vector in their bombing and ground strafing efforts - bought with blood yes - but as the say 'no pain no gain' and of course at the end of the day what did their opponents, the Jagdstaffeln actually achieve? Did they ever deny their airspace to Allied machines? They certainly exerted no influence over Allied air space - and when their own soldiers had their backs to the wall in the last three moths, did they routinely swoop down to attack their assailants??????

Indeed Jadgdstaffeln scores themselves are not a little over inflated. Moreover most of their actual 'hard kills' could be characterised as home side predatory scalp hunting, over stragglers, lame ducks, low flyers and the lost, often with a local numbers advantage. A record, which one could take off the rose coloured glasses, isn't all that rosey at all.

Russ

[Askania]

Casualties for 60 Squadron RFC between March and July 1917:

6 March Major Graves KIA, Lt. Joyce KIA
11 March Lt. Whitehead WIA/POW
30 March Lt. Garnett KIA, 2Lt. Bower (shot up)DOW
2 April 2Lt. Williams KIA
5 April Lt. Townsend WIA/POW
7 April 2Lt. Smart KIA, 2Lt. Hall KIA, Capt. Knowles POW
8 April 2Lt Hervey POW, Major Milot KIA
14 April Capt. Binnie WIA/POW, Lt. Russel POW, 2Lt. Cock KIA, 2Lt. Chapman POW/DOW
16 April 2Lt Kimbell KIA, 2LT. Robertson POW/DOW, Lt. Langwill POW/DOW, Lt. Elliot KIA
24 April 2Lt. Clark shot down in flames, DOW
26 April 2Lt. Henderson, AA hit FTL INJ
27 April 2Lt. Stedman POW
6 May 2Lt. McKissock POW
18 May 2Lt. Grandin KIA
25 May 2Lt. Gilchrist WIA/POW
28 May 2Lt. Phalen KIA
3 June 2Lt. Gunner WIA
16 June Lt. Lloyd KIA
27 June Lt Murray WIA/POW
3 July Lt. Adams POW/DOW
10 July Major Scott WIA
15 July Lt. Parkes WIA/POW
22 July Lt. Mowle WIA
29 July 2Lt. Gunner KIA

35 RFC fighter pilot casualties, most of them KIA and POW. They lost in these four months as many as Jagdstaffel 11 lost during the whole war (in KIA/WIA/POW). And Jasta 11 was in the thick and center of the battles almost all the time. No wonder Mr Bishop was flying and lying about his deeds accomplished in empty air. If he had faced the German Jastas as the unsung heroes of his Squadron did, he would have been killed within days!!

You can relativize the British losses and bash the German pilots as much as you want. You live in La La Land, completely out of touch with the history of the German Air Force.

“The fighter units flying in support of the defensive action at Arras in April were Jagdstaffeln 3,4,11,12,27,28,30 and 33.Towards the end of April these formations had an average daily strength of only seven aeroplanes each due to losses, replacement difficulty and so on. Between 1 and 12 April there were 42 aircraft ready for action daily, and from then until the end of the month this figure had increased to 56 machines. The British estimated the strength of the German fighter force to be far higher, an error which speaks volumes for the energy and devotion to duty for the Jasta pilots, and for the tireless efforts of the mechanics who kept the aeroplanes serviceable. Jagdstaffeln working on a special operational roster were airborne up to four times a day when the tactical situation in the air was critical. The policy of strict formation grouping localized the effectiveness of the relatively small number of fighter machines and the use of the Flugmeldedienst service was also a major factor, since it was upon the accuracy of reports from the forward Luftschutz Offiziere that the Gruppenführer der Flieger (Grufl) evaluated the aerial situation and the opportunity to send his fighters into action. When he did so, they were required to attack the enemy not only on the German side of the lines, but whenever possible on the enemy side. That this aggressiveness was successful is shown by the large number of aircraft brought down within the British lines.” Alex Imrie

The few German fighters (and units) accomplished astonishing things despite so many obstacles, obstacles that were multiplied the longer the war went on.


Askania

[Pips]

35 casualties in just 5 months? Frightening.